Care to join me on the parallel bars?
Exporter said:
I prefer the uneven parallel bars bro!Care to join me on the parallel bars?
My dear Catholic friend,
Well my brother, since I recently gave my testimony at church, I have it in written form and will share it with you and those on this thread. Here it goes the Readers Digest version:
Con’t from previous page.
I can assert that what you believe are “traditions of men” just as much as you can. But what I have (that you do not) is a continuation of belief that goes back to the Apostles and not a 16th century innovation.My dear Catholic friend,
I believe in sola scriptura because the bible teaches it, not because some self-proclaimed infallible institution says so. Jesus clearly condemned human tradition:
Mark 7:5-13 states, “These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men…You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men…And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions…Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Those of us who hold to "sola scriptura" do not say there was never a time when God’s Word was spoken. Quite obviously there was such a time. Yet we also hold that the Scriptures are God’s final and full revelation to humankind. The oral traditions once communicated by the apostles have been committed to writing for all generations to come. All that God intends us to have is found within the Scriptures. Nothing outside the pages of Scripture is needed.
Protestants do not accept tradition as apostolic, or being God’s revelation, or as something that has an authority equal to that of the Scriptures. Most Protestants have a high regard for the teachings of the early fathers, though obviously they do not believe they are infallible. Protestants do not believe that any form of tradition is infallible like Scripture is!
Please show me in the Scriptures where it teaches that we need to employ the use of Scripture, Tradition and the Magistarium rather than Scripture alone!
It is unnecessary for me to show what Christians believed about baptism prior to the 16th century because what people believed is not relevant. The fact that salvation by faith is clearly taught in Scripture is undeniable! The problem is, Catholics reject biblical revelation in favor of the human traditions.
I asked this question of others and would like to ask it of you-- What is your definition of grace?
A ritual (baptism) does absolutely nothing! God judges the heart and unless you have a change of heart, even the water of Niagara Falls will not cleanse away your sins! :nope: **Only faith in Christ can save you! **
**
No what I believe is the Word of God!
He taught we first receive this grace at baptism.
As I stated in another post:
**John1717 said:No what I believe is the Word of God!
Please enlighten me as to where the following teachings of the Roman Catholic church can be found in the Scriptures?
Where in the Bible do we find Peter assuming and exercising the role of a Catholic pope?
Where does the Bible say the early churches treated Peter in a papal fashion?
Where does the Bible say that one man is the head of all churches?
Where does Bible say God established a special priesthood for the churches that is separate from the priesthood of the believers?
Where does the Bible describe the office of such priests in the early churches?
Where does the Bible say that New Testament priests are ordained after the order of Melchizedek?
Where in the Bible do we find a requirement that pastors be celibate?
Where does the Bible say the apostles passed on their authority through a succession?
Where does the Bible give standards for apostolic succession? There are standards for pastors and deacons, but where are the standards for an ongoing apostleship?
Where does the Bible describe nuns in the early churches?
Where in the Bible do we find anyone praying to Mary or to any other person other than God?
Where does the Bible call Mary the Mother of God?
Where does the Bible say that Mary is the Queen of Heaven?
Where in the Bible do we find the teaching that Mary is sinless?
Where in the Bible do we find the baptism of an infant who is too young to believe in Christ?
Where does the Bible teach us that the church can identify dead people as saints and can then pray to them?
Where does the Bible teach that a dead person can intercede for the living?
Where does the Bible teach about purgatory?
Where does the Bible teach that churches should use the bones of dead men in any type of religious manner?
Where does the Bible teach that the churches used indulgences?
Where in the Bible do we find even one example of a Catholic mass being conducted or even described? If Christ established the mass and if it is central to the Christian faith as Rome claims, why is there not one example of it in the book of Acts and the New Testament epistles?
Where in the Bible do we find Christians taking the Lord’s supper by partaking of the bread alone without the wine or grape juice?
Where in the Bible does Paul or any of the early church leaders teach that there are seven sacraments?
Where in the Bible do we find the churches practicing the sacrament of confirmation?
Where in the Bible do we find the churches practicing any sort of extreme unction or last rites as a sacrament?
Where in the Bible do we find the prayer of the rosary?
Where in the Bible do we find that New Testament churches are to conduct elaborate rituals and ceremonies after the fashion of Rome?
Where in the Bible do we find that the headquarters for the church is to be in Rome?
During the last 1,700 years, the Roman Catholic Church has put to death hundreds of thousands she believed to be heretics – Jews, dissident Catholics, Protestants, anabaptists, Hussites, Lollards, Waldenses, Albigenses and many others in distant lands who refused to convert to the ‘one true church.’ Today, the Roman Catholic Church calls people who hold these very same opinions ‘separated brethren’ and teaches it is wrong to persecute on the basis of religious belief. Which church is right? The church which killed those who dispute her teachings, or the church which treats other Christians – and even other religions – as alternative pathways to heaven?
I’ll ask again, please tell me what your definition of grace is!
Hearing…that means it was passed on by word of mouth. which clearly means that oral tradition was what the early church preached long before the written NT came into existence.
Hi Dan!
I’ve seen no evidence that what you personally consider to be the correct choice is objectively the correct choice. There is a voice in the world today that we are to listen to and not reject lest we be rejecting Christ himself (Luke 10:16). I find no evidence that Luke 10:16 is a reference to you. I find a lot of evidence that it’s a referece to the Catholic Church. I do see evidence, however, that you are sincerely seeking the truth. In that you and I have a lot in common.
and accept in one breath and that it’s none of you and all of God in the next is contradictory. If one does not offer the contirbution of repentence and acceptence is one still saved?John1717 said:
In Christ,
Nancy
I think that you are confused as to what the term repentance means. Repentance is a change of mind. It is a change of mind from any understanding of God and His plan of redemption that does not conform to the truth of the Scriptures. It comes from a fear and love of God that is coupled with sorrow for sins committed against Him. Evidence of genuine faith and repentance is when one turns from a life independent of god to a life dependent upon Him. There is no contradiction!
The scripture verse you quote specifically says that belief gives us the right “to become” children of God. It does not say it makes us children of God.