Democrats now critical of Rice's Benghazi explanation, amid more damaging evidence

[oldcelt]

Are you refusing to read the sworn testimony being reported?

Which one…where does anyone claim knowledge that the administration conspired to perpetrate a fraud? I am fairly certain that such a thing would push Jodi Arias out of the top news slot.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Well…so far this has been precisely what I thought it would be…a rehash of previous discussions with a few new faces whose testimony has already been refuted. The fact that several of you are trying to debunk the budgetary issues actually shows that the GOP is now on the defensive.
We’ll have to see if anything of substance comes out, but I’m not holding my breath since Fox is covering the Jodi Arias case.

Thanks for the mental gymnastics demonstration!

 

[stellina]

If this turned out to be really bad for Obama, could he be impeached?

Given the gravity of the situation, I’d say it’s a possibility although it will depend on what they unearth about his exact level of involvement. From what I recall, the laws defining impeachment are rather specific - there should be some good explanations out there for us non-legal people.

I actually remember Watergate although I was very young at the time. Since then, I’ve read a few things about it, including “All the President’s Men” which is very interesting if you can get past the bias. Of course there are several lessons to be learned from it, not least of which are that A, eventually the truth will come out and B, no one, including the president of the United States, is above the law.

After he was elected the first time, I recall telling someone that Obama was capable of making Nixon look like a Boy Scout. I will admit that I’ve always had nothing but contempt for him but for the sake of our country, I wouldn’t like to be proven right.

 

[SamH]

Which one…where does anyone claim knowledge that the administration conspired to perpetrate a fraud? I am fairly certain that such a thing would push Jodi Arias out of the top news slot.

You seem to think that media outlets are in the business of reporting news.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Which one…where does anyone claim knowledge that the administration conspired to perpetrate a fraud? I am fairly certain that such a thing would push Jodi Arias out of the top news slot.

Remember it was you who brought up Jodi Arias.

What is her revelance to this discussion?

Oh, wait, it’s called a strawman.

 

[LisaA]

Lisa…their conclusions are not the issue…the quoted statements are…and it’s not like no one here ever uses right-wing sources…It is interesting to me how the GOP supporters keep shifting the target. Which is it…the youtube video…which virtually everyone I have heard admits was a mistake. …or…the lack of military action…or… should we have done a flyover…and so on and so on.
This highly anticipated hearing has thus far produced nothing that changes any material fact. Eventually, even the most hard core will have to accept that this is going nowhere.

And I really like the Mike Huckabee statement that was posted by Broom…makes me smile.

As I said, using Media Matters is like me using the RNC talking points. I did read the link but didn’t find much in the way of testimony or fact or anything really relevant with respect to the testimony. OK so John Bolotn “hopes” it’s a conspiracy. Well so do I. But my hopes have nothing to do with what I can see laid out in public such as the various versions of the talking points. That isn’t opinion. You can see the clear changes taking place and the scrubbing of references to Islamic terrorists. Again, not opinion, it’s right there if you would take a look.

As to the moving target, I was noting what "I want to learn from the testimoney, not what questions would be asked. Rep Issa said the discussion would consider what happened before the attack, what happened during the initial and subsequent attacks, and what happened afterward. My understanding is that this has been the subject of several previous hearings and testimony but that this was the first time that someone on the ground, at the time, has testified.

Blaming a YouTube video was not a mistake, it was a lie. They knew it was a lie at the time (not sure about Ms Rice) it was written and at the time Ms Rice appeared on the talk shows. It was a lie when Hillary told one of the grieving family members that “The guy that made the YouTube video is in jail!” It was a lie when Hillary and Obama spent taxpayer money on a commercial to send to Pakistan where they apologized for the video.

This was not a mistake.

LIsa

 

[LisaA]

Remember it was you who brought up Jodi Arias.

What is her revelance to this discussion?

Oh, wait, it’s called a strawman.

Or the old “SQUIRREL! SQUIRREL!” tactic. Really too bad there isn’t much to prop up the other side’s tall tale (tail?).
LIsa

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Or the old “SQUIRREL! SQUIRREL!” tactic. Really too bad there isn’t much to prop up the other side’s tall tale (tail?).
LIsa

The fact that only one Obama defender is still arguing for the White House in this topic is pretty telling. Most loyalists have basically run from the story and would rather avoid it that try and defend it, and rightly so.

It stretches credibility way too much to keep insisteing that there was no cover up, that they didn’t invent a narrative that they knew to be false, that the President didn’t pack it in on the night of the attack (who goes to bed during a terrorist attack?), that they didn;t endanger other US lives by spreading the myth that a US made video against Islam was the reason behind the attacks, and that they would not rest until the perpetrators were caught (seeing as how they are at large, and the crime was left unattended for over a week after the attack).

You can still support Obama’s policies and admit he lied and covered up this scandal to try and win an election.

I doubt he would be impeached anyway, since he didn’t lie under oath at any time. He just lied to cameras. It looks terrible for a sitting President, but isn’t grounds for impeachment.

The blowback will likely hit Hillary anyway, if it does anyone. And that will be better for conservatives in the long run. Obama is a lame duck who hasn’t accomplished anything to hang his hat on, in historic terms. The ACA is falling apart slowly, and its backers are fleeing like mice in a cathouse. Even if the press doesn’t cover the story the way they would if Obama was a Republican, the ad campaign will eviscerate Hillary over this if she decides to run, and ads are as effective as mainstream press during an election.

 

[oldcelt]

Remember it was you who brought up Jodi Arias.

What is her revelance to this discussion?

Oh, wait, it’s called a strawman.

No, it was an observation of what was being covered on all the news channels. Since it was not presented as an argument, it cannot, by definition, be a strawman.
As before, this story is not resonating, and even Fox News, which had pushed it endlessly before the election, was not giving it any major play today on its news coverage. I’m sure that their nightly pundits will devote a great deal of time, but that is a different story.
My conclusion…they’ll probably continue some hearings, and that’s about it. There was a great deal of hype from certain quarters leading up to the testimony today. What did we get…testimony by three individuals who didn’t offer anything earth-shaking…and I think that is being kind.

 

[LisaA]

No, it was an observation of what was being covered on all the news channels. Since it was not presented as an argument, it cannot, by definition, be a strawman.
As before, this story is not resonating, and even Fox News, which had pushed it endlessly before the election, was not giving it any major play today on its news coverage. I’m sure that their nightly pundits will devote a great deal of time, but that is a different story.
My conclusion…they’ll probably continue some hearings, and that’s about it. There was a great deal of hype from certain quarters leading up to the testimony today. What did we get…testimony by three individuals who didn’t offer anything earth-shaking…and I think that is being kind.

oldcelt did you listen to the testimony? The moment by moment account of what happened, how the personnel at the Consulate tried to save Ambassador Stevens and Shawn Smith, who were trapped in a burning room, followed by the sad news he had died. Then the attempts to move the personnel to the annex, how brave everyone was, and how they got the bodies and the injured off the roof.

I thought it was gut wrenching. This is the first time this testimony was heard, at least beyond some small select group.

There was a call to Mrs Clinton who said she’d call back but she didn’t. Other testimony that Mrs Clinton said “Keep me as far away from this as possible…” Then testimony that Cheryl Mills, Hillary’s right hand assistant at State berated Greg Hicks and told him not to cooperate. He was subsequently demoted although his record was one of high achievement and one award and promotion after another.

I don’t think you actually listened to the testimony, you just pulled some taking points off Media Matters didn’t you?

I admire your persistence but how anyone can defend the egregious lack of response, followed by the obfuscation and lies about the YouTube is truly misguided.

Lisa

 

[oldcelt]

oldcelt did you listen to the testimony? The moment by moment account of what happened, how the personnel at the Consulate tried to save Ambassador Stevens and Shawn Smith, who were trapped in a burning room, followed by the sad news he had died. Then the attempts to move the personnel to the annex, how brave everyone was, and how they got the bodies and the injured off the roof.

I thought it was gut wrenching. This is the first time this testimony was heard, at least beyond some small select group.

There was a call to Mrs Clinton who said she’d call back but she didn’t. Other testimony that Mrs Clinton said “Keep me as far away from this as possible…” Then testimony that Cheryl Mills, Hillary’s right hand assistant at State berated Greg Hicks and told him not to cooperate. He was subsequently demoted although his record was one of high achievement and one award and promotion after another.

I don’t think you actually listened to the testimony, you just pulled some taking points off Media Matters didn’t you?

I admire your persistence but how anyone can defend the egregious lack of response, followed by the obfuscation and lies about the YouTube is truly misguided.

Lisa

Lisa…you assign a great deal more importance to the testimony of these three than I believe many will. None of them was in a position to know what was happening in the higher reaches of the military, Dept. of State, etc. The very fact that Mr. Hicks had some issues with the Department of State is enough to cause me, and others I suspect, to view some of his recollections with skepticism. I particularly like his statement to the effect of “I knew it was a terrorist attack from moment one.” Pretty good for a guy who was in Tripoli and didn’t even recognize the phone number from the Benghazi compound.
Regarding my persistence…maybe someone would like to total the posts relative to this subject by poster. I have the feeling that I would fall well down the list.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Benghazi whistleblower: I was ‘demoted’ after questioning Susan Rice’s talking points

 

[Morwenna]

Regarding my persistence…maybe someone would like to total the posts relative to this subject by poster. I have the feeling that I would fall well down the list.

We’re in luck! CAF offers just such a feature … it does all the work for us!

Clicking on this thread, for example, here are the total posts by poster:

LisaA 23
oldcelt 22
SamH 20
livingwordunity 13
Gricken 12
_Abyssinia 12
ishii 10
BroomWagon 9
qui est ce 7
SuperLuigi 5
mary bobo 4
Darryl1958 4
Maso 4
RACJ 3
estesbob 3
HappyCatholic01 3
colmywaykurtz 2
styrgwillidar 2
iamrefreshed 2
Morwenna 2
Seachange 1
Tarpeian Rock 1
Holly3278 1
Luigi Daniele 1
Nimzovik 1
stellina 1
Ridgerunner 1

There is one other thread on this topic on page 1 of World News (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=783623). Here are the totals from it:

oldcelt 6
LisaA 5
qui est ce 5
SamH 3
mary bobo 2
Darryl1958 1
HappyCatholic01 1
BroomWagon 1
Bill Martin 1
JMJSHJ 1
Holly3278 1
mountee 1

Interesting, eh?

 

[LisaA]

Lisa…you assign a great deal more importance to the testimony of these three than I believe many will. None of them was in a position to know what was happening in the higher reaches of the military, Dept. of State, etc. The very fact that Mr. Hicks had some issues with the Department of State is enough to cause me, and others I suspect, to view some of his recollections with skepticism. I particularly like his statement to the effect of “I knew it was a terrorist attack from moment one.” Pretty good for a guy who was in Tripoli and didn’t even recognize the phone number from the Benghazi compound.
Regarding my persistence…maybe someone would like to total the posts relative to this subject by poster. I have the feeling that I would fall well down the list.

Again, the higher reaches of the military are not being called to testify. I am referring to those in direct contact with the personnel in Benghazi. They reported 60 attackers at the compound. Not demonstrators, attackers.

He didn’t recognize the phone number because Ambassador Stevens had borrowed his assistant’s phone to contact him after there was no response to his initial call.

I guess I don’t understand what you believe at this point. Do you not think the YouTube video was a fabrication? You may not believe that it was politially motivated but there has been witness after witness, actual copies of the various versions of the talking points that scrubbed reference to Al Queda and referred to the video.

Tell me what you believe? I realize you seem unconcerned with the brutal deaths of our Ambassador and other personnel (how inconvenient during the campaign!) but do you have any concern about being lied to?

If you are an “oldcelt” you must remember Watergate. I spent an entire summer glued to the TV (I was a would be Democrat) and remember the relentless pursuit of “what did they know and when did they know it.” Didn’t you cheer them on going after that smarmy Nixon? I did. I guess now your ox is being gored, it’s not such a good idea to ask questions?

Lisa

 

[BroomWagon]

oldcelt did you listen to the testimony? The moment by moment account of what happened, how the personnel at the Consulate tried to save Ambassador Stevens and Shawn Smith, who were trapped in a burning room, followed by the sad news he had died. Then the attempts to move the personnel to the annex, how brave everyone was, and how they got the bodies and the injured off the roof.

I thought it was gut wrenching. This is the first time this testimony was heard, at least beyond some small select group.

There was a call to Mrs Clinton who said she’d call back but she didn’t. Other testimony that Mrs Clinton said “Keep me as far away from this as possible…” Then testimony that Cheryl Mills, Hillary’s right hand assistant at State berated Greg Hicks and told him not to cooperate. He was subsequently demoted although his record was one of high achievement and one award and promotion after another.

I don’t think you actually listened to the testimony, you just pulled some taking points off Media Matters didn’t you?

I admire your persistence but how anyone can defend the egregious lack of response, followed by the obfuscation and lies about the YouTube is truly misguided.

Lisa

MSNBC, Media Matters, it’s called circling the wagons.

 

[rlg94086]

We’re in luck! CAF offers just such a feature … it does all the work for us!

Clicking on this thread, for example, here are the total posts by poster:

LisaA 23
oldcelt 22
SamH 20
livingwordunity 13
Gricken 12
_Abyssinia 12
ishii 10
BroomWagon 9
qui est ce 7
SuperLuigi 5
mary bobo 4
Darryl1958 4
Maso 4
RACJ 3
estesbob 3
HappyCatholic01 3
colmywaykurtz 2
styrgwillidar 2
iamrefreshed 2
Morwenna 2
Seachange 1
Tarpeian Rock 1
Holly3278 1
Luigi Daniele 1
Nimzovik 1
stellina 1
Ridgerunner 1

There is one other thread on this topic on page 1 of World News (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=783623). Here are the totals from it:

oldcelt 6
LisaA 5
qui est ce 5
SamH 3
mary bobo 2
Darryl1958 1
HappyCatholic01 1
BroomWagon 1
Bill Martin 1
JMJSHJ 1
Holly3278 1
mountee 1

Interesting, eh?

Careful what you ask for…

 

[BroomWagon]

Huckabee is over reaching. Unless Obama told a covering story to a congressional investigation he has nothing to worry about. If lying to the American public was an impeachable offense he wouldn’t have made it out of his first inauguration day.

Hillary has a LOT to worry about.

True but let’s not forget, they may well have seen how it would have effected the election.

I believe the Administration even discussed this video at the UN. So, it might not be that easy to totally be out of the loop on this.

 

[LisaA]

True but let’s not forget, they may well have seen how it would have effected the election.

I believe the Administration even discussed this video at the UN. So, it might not be that easy to totally be out of the loop on this.

Yes Obama on the never ending apology tour brought it up at the UN, per Examiner editorial:

**…tried to focus attention on a silly YouTube amateur video mocking Muhammad, which President Obama repeatedly mentioned during a speech to the United Nations. U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice went even further, telling ABC News, “Our current best assessment, based on the information that we have at present, is that, in fact, what this began as, it was a spontaneous – not a premeditated – response to what had transpired in Cairo.” **
This speech was in LATE September.

Lisa

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

He didn’t recognize the phone number because Ambassador Stevens had borrowed his assistant’s phone to contact him after there was no response to his initial call.

According to him, he was ‘relaxing in his villa watching tv’ and missed two phone calls from the Ambassador. Basically he either ignored or didn’t hear his phone ringing. Seems like a lapse in judgement to me. The only big problem I see, based on this testimony, is the ridiculous amount of bureaucracy in the State Department, Department of Defense, and CIA. How many phone calls had to made before they could reach someone with the authority to do something? Seems to me that just getting the big picture required phone calls to a, b, c, d, e, f, and g then getting authorization to do something required phone calls to h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, and p which then had to filter back down from o to a.

In terms of why Mr. Hicks was demoted; at the very beginning of his testimony he said that he was ‘relaxing in his villa watching television’ when he missed TWO urgent calls from the Ambassador. He was too busy watching tv to answer the Ambassador’s phone calls and didn’t even notice until someone barged into the room to tell him that the consulate was under attack. That seems like a good place to start.

 

[Maso]

A politically motivated smoke screen indirectly causing the deaths of three US diplomats done with conspitratorial collusion is indeed deplorable. But prove it… I hope they do.

Down goes Reid, Pelosi, Rice, Obama… and the Democratic Senate majority. I love it…!

It would make Watergate look like the proverbial Tempist in a Teapot.