Dems Say It's Time for GOP to Unite, End Shutdown

[estesbob]

Of course not - ideology is important, but it will lead you to a false Gospel if it is not accompanied by mercy and compassion.

It’s neither. I am not denying what you say about ideologues on the left. So it’s not the pot calling the kettle black. What I’m doing is calling both black.

For example, there are plenty of political conservatives who simply can’t comprehend that thoughtful, faith-filled, Catholics would actually hold views different from their own politically conservative views.

See - it works both ways.

Perhaps you have gained a false impression, because you have never been the target of an attack by conservatives. I have and believe me, the things some conservatives say would put the Pharisees to shame. Lots of ideology, but little heart.

Pope Francis really put his finger on it!

You are right Icant imagine thoughtful Catholics supporting abortion and homosexual marriage and or voring for thoese who do. The Church and Pope Francis agree with me.

 

[estesbob]

At the risk of sounding like a commercial - that’s the beauty of the Twitter extension for Chrome. It takes no time at all. A little badge pops up when new Tweets arrive and all you have to do is click on it and scan through them. Then if something good catches your eye, you click on the link.

For example the USCCB just tweeted this:

USCCB @USCCB
RT @news_va_en: Pope Francis: Women called to service, not servitude §RV
t.co/Bp38zaumDV

Since I’m interested in anything that has to do with the role of women in the church, I will definitely check this one out!

End of commercial.

And you find this to be something new?

 

[Ridgerunner]

There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that some people will gain with obamacare. I’m not yet persuaded that it’s 38%, though. One suspects Obama’s dyed-in-the-wool supporters who would favor him no matter how bad Obamacare might be, are part of that. There is no particular reason to believe 38% will be better off for it, or that they know what their fate is and approve of it.

But preliminary indications are that most earning over the median income will lose. Some below it will lose. People already on Medicaid will lose. People on Medicare will lose. People with “Cadillac plans” (high execs and union members) will lose. Women past childbearing age will lose. Religious orders having more than 50 members and who serve people without regard to religion will definitely lose.

At present, I don’t see any way small businesses and their employees will fail to be on the losing end.

People otherwise eligible for subsidies who do NOT pay more than 9% of their income as their contribution will lose.

Some of it is relative. Married people will lose relative to single people living together. People with teenage children who earn money will lose relative to those who don’t.
Chaste unmarried women will lose relative to unchaste unmarried women.

Some of it is uncertain. Depending on what employers do after the deferral of their mandate expires, a great number of people presently having employment-based insurance will probably lose.

Some large employers are either going to have to figure a way out, get a permanent exemption or lose big. If an employer has more than 50 employees, and if more than 30 are required by the employer’s plan to pay more than 9% of their income for the employer’s plan, (and therefore end up on the exchanges) then the employer is going to be fined $2000.00 for every employee it has, whether they are in the group of 30 or not. That can be a very big number.

I really don’t blame the Repubs for trying one last time to modify Obamacare.

 

[bellasbane]

Ideology is fine as long as it doesn’t replace ones faith in God. That is the problem with so many on the left - their faith is in government. And as for many leftist Christians/catholics - if I take their actions and statements at face value, I would have to conclude that they also have replaced their faith in God with a faith in government. It is the heresy of utopianism with a little Gnosticism mixed in.

Ishii

The right has its own heresies. Ayn Rand style libertarianism for example. The notion that “I build that” from the GOP convention is an insult to the principle of Universal Destination of Goods. This isn’t small potato heresy, but the kind of stuff that distorts a society.

 

[bellasbane]

And you find this to be something new?

What is NEW for ME is the Twitter extension for CHROME - Right now its telling me that 22 new Tweets have come in since I last checked it.

I’ve had a Twitter account for about 3 years but it always required effort on my part to check in to see what folks were saying. Now I just click on the birdie in the corner of my browser!

 

[estesbob]

The right has its own heresies. Ayn Rand style libertarianism for example. The notion that “I build that” from the GOP convention is an insult to the principle of Universal Destination of Goods. This isn’t small potato heresy, but the kind of stuff that distorts a society.

In your opinion.But there is nothing in the GOP platform that is contrary to Church teaching.And of course when we examine the views of the Left we are not talking about one’s opinion on what is heresy.We are talking about direct rejection of core teaching on morality of the Church

 

[ProVobis]

The right has its own heresies. Ayn Rand style libertarianism for example.

I’m glad you made that distinction.

As opposed to the Von Mises or Ron Paul type of libertarianism, which BTW, very few politicians aspire to.

 

[bellasbane]

I think CS Lewis could have been talking about Sister Simone Campbel when he wrote this: (I have substituted “govt. provided healthcare” for “pacifism”)

“Whichever he adopts, your main task will be the same. Let him begin by treating govt. provided Healthcare as a part of his religion. The let him, under the influence of partisan spirit, come to regard it as the most important part. Then quietly and gradually nurse him onto the stage at which the religion becomes merely a part of the ‘cause’, in which Christianity is valued chiefly because of the excellent arguments it can produce in favour of the govt. provided Healthcare. The attitude which you want to guard against is that in which temporal affairs are treated primarily as material for obedience. Once you have made the World an end, and faith a means, you have almost won your man, and it makes very little difference what kind of worldly end he is pursuing. Provided that meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades, matter more to him than prayers and sacraments and charity, he is ours — and the more ‘religious’ (on those terms) the more securely ours. I could show you a pretty cageful down here

Ishii

Are you trying to insult a woman who has dedicated her life to the corporal works of mercy? Wow, that’s a new low.

I believe Screwtape ended up devouring Wormwood in the end.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Are you trying to insult a woman who has dedicated her life to the corporal works of mercy? Wow, that’s a new low.

I believe Screwtape ended up devouring Wormwood in the end.

Not to get into personalities here (and perhaps get dinged by the moderators who don’t want critiques of religious persons) but I very much doubt you know a lot about Sr. Simone Campbell.

I will recommend further research, but I’ll leave it there.

 

[bellasbane]

In your opinion.But there is nothing in the GOP platform that is contrary to Church teaching.And of course when we examine the views of the Left we are not talking about one’s opinion on what is heresy.We are talking about direct rejection of core teaching on morality of the Church

Which is precisely why conservatives have got to stop committing political suicide and start nominating folks who are electable! Geesh. Get rid of the crazies already!

Romney lost because (1) he’s a dweeb and (2) he went so far to the right to win the primaries that he couldn’t recover for the general election.

As long as the GOP base cannot figure out they should nominate someone like Jon Huntsman, continue to drink the Koch Brothers kool-aid, and keep rallying around clowns like Sarah Palin, Herman Cain or Michele Bachmann, I will never vote Republican, because I do not vote against the Common Good.

If the GOP base really cared about protecting life, they would remember the Buckley Rule.

 

[ishii]

Are you trying to insult a woman who has dedicated her life to the corporal works of mercy? Wow, that’s a new low.

I believe Screwtape ended up devouring Wormwood in the end.

He could have. I don’t have a window into anyone’s heart - but certainly the leftist catholics seem to focus on “meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades” i.e. political solutions. Don’t hear much from them on sacraments, etc. Its all about the leftist “struggle” against the usual evils: racism, capitalism, classism, sexism, now homophobia has been added. Its all out of the Marxist playbook. It has nothing to do with Christianity. I think their numbers are dwindling thought - people like that generally don’t reproduce as much and they are dying off.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Which is precisely why conservatives have got to stop committing political suicide and start nominating folks who are electable! Geesh. Get rid of the crazies already!

Romney lost because (1) he’s a dweeb and (2) he went so far to the right to win the primaries that he couldn’t recover for the general election.

As long as the GOP base cannot figure out they should nominate someone like Jon Huntsman, continue to drink the Koch Brothers kool-aid, and keep rallying around clowns like Sarah Palin, Herman Cain or Michele Bachmann, I will never vote Republican, because I do not vote against the Common Good.

If the GOP base really cared about protecting life, they would remember the Buckley Rule.

Is this snarky post what Pope Francis is talking about when he says we should have an ideology of the heart?

Ishii

 

[ishii]

In your opinion.But there is nothing in the GOP platform that is contrary to Church teaching.And of course when we examine the views of the Left we are not talking about one’s opinion on what is heresy.We are talking about direct rejection of core teaching on morality of the Church

Exactly - the Democrat left promotes secularism and policies in direct opposition to Church teaching - and all Bellasbane can do is bring up Ayn Rand in response.

Ishii

 

[bellasbane]

He could have. I don’t have a window into anyone’s heart - but certainly the leftist catholics seem to focus on “meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades” i.e. political solutions. Don’t hear much from them on sacraments, etc. Its all about the leftist “struggle” against the usual evils: racism, capitalism, classism, sexism, now homophobia has been added. Its all out of the Marxist playbook. It has nothing to do with Christianity. I think their numbers are dwindling thought - people like that generally don’t reproduce as much and they are dying off.

Ishii

No Ishii - Of all the spiritual aspects of the faith, the Sacraments are the one thing liberal social justice Catholics still care about. The Sacraments are really a saving Grace for them and for the Church.

We have about 400 families in our religious education program and less than 10% attend Church regularly. The irony is that these parents faithfully bring their kids to class each week - why? Because of the Sacraments. They want their kids to receive Reconciliation, the Eucharist and Confirmation, because it is important to them.

We call this generation of parents “lost”, because they are the sons and daughters of the baby boomers - the worst generation of parents ever. They have never been properly taught their faith, have no idea what they are missing, and don’t have a clue as to what to pass on to their kids - apart from the Sacraments.

So we begin where they are at and hope to draw them in further. Our program is very Ignatian and everyone likes the social justice components, because the get it. Hopefully, they will learn to like and understand the spiritual components as well.

 

[Darryl1958]

The left’s solution for GOP is for the GOP to become more reasonably socialist, just like them.
They will vote for Republicans when Republicans become leftist.

That is an interesting solution.

Chances are though, that there will come a time when trillion dollar deficits and unfettered entitlements will become as unsustainable to an economy as unfettered abortion has been to a population.

For sure, even in that scenario,the chorus line on the left will remain “Bush did it!”

But, for now at least, win or lose, the conservative option is still open— somewhat— for Americans as long as the GOP opts for sustainability over grabbing political power at any cost.

I hope I am wrong of course. I , for one, am quite happy that the government spends as much money as possible on me, as long as there aren’t any consequences that will come back and bite me in the tush later on.
And raising the next generation is a lot of hard work. I would be very happy for robots to take care of the economic growth that will support government programs taking care of me in my old age. Robots won’t run afoul of the law like young men inevitably do, after all.

But, I consider myself engaging in wishful thinking when I do that. But if I am wrong, and the Democratics are right, and the Sarah Palins and the Romneys are nothing but a bunch of clowns, crazies and dweebs for delivering a different message than leftist ideology, I personally would be more content with being wrong, than with being right.

 

[ishii]

No Ishii - Of all the spiritual aspects of the faith, the Sacraments are the one thing liberal social justice Catholics still care about. The Sacraments are really a saving Grace for them and for the Church.

I’m glad to hear that. And I don’t doubt you. However, I was mainly speaking about the leaders - the activists that constantly campaign for leftist causes. How often has the activist sister spoken about the sacraments? I believe her main focus is on leftist causes. They were at the Jesuit school I attended in the 80’s - some of them worked for the Sandinistas, spoke out in favor of Castro, etc.

We have about 400 families in our religious education program and less than 10% attend Church regularly. The irony is that these parents faithfully bring their kids to class each week - why? Because of the Sacraments. They want their kids to receive Reconciliation, the Eucharist and Confirmation, because it is important to them.

That’s too bad they don’t attend mass. Why do they want their kids to receive the first sacraments if they don’t plan to continue? Doesn’t really add up. But that said, I suppose its better than nothing - good that they are sending their kids at all.

We call this generation of parents “lost”, because they are the sons and daughters of the baby boomers - the worst generation of parents ever. They have never been properly taught their faith, have no idea what they are missing, and don’t have a clue as to what to pass on to their kids - apart from the Sacraments.

Interesting and sad. Are you involved in the religious education program?

So we begin where they are at and hope to draw them in further. Our program is very Ignatian and everyone likes the social justice components, because the get it. Hopefully, they will learn to like and understand the spiritual components as well.

Hopefully. What is happening at our Churches with our youth is more important than what is happening in Washington DC that we are all arguing about.

Thanks for responding.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

What’s your source?

Here is my source: (I even put it in bold italics for you).

***A new NBC-Wall Street Journal poll finds that 38 percent of Americans say Obamacare is a good idea ***.

Ishii

 

[Darryl1958]

Here is my source: (I even put it in bold italics for you).

Ishii

The strange thing was that that source was quoted in writing 4 times directly above the post demanding that you give the source.

 

[bellasbane]

The left’s solution for GOP is for the GOP to become more reasonably socialist, just like them.
They will vote for Republicans when Republicans become leftist.

That is an interesting solution.

Are you responding to my post?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11296896&postcount=1119

FYI: Jon Huntsman is hardly a socialist and the Buckley Rule is not a leftist idea.

The way I see it, if Catholic conservatives were sincere when they say that the goal of ending abortion is their top priority above and beyond all others, then they would choose life over justice and vote for a pro-life candidate like Jon Huntsman, who is a rational conservative and can WIN an election.

Otherwise, they are choosing justice over life, which makes then no different than liberal Catholics who vote for progressive pro-choice candidates. Because where conservatives focus on justice for the baby, liberals focus on justice for the woman - and if you don’t think there are justice issues that affect women when it comes to reproductive rights and government regulation of pregnancy, you are gravely mistaken.

What does Mother Church want? I refer you back to my earlier post about what King Solomon was really testing when he ordered that he baby be cut in half…

What is more important to a mother - life or justice? That’s what Solomon was testing.

Now that you understand, perhaps you should reconsider your response.

Every good mother knows that sometimes you must compromise justice and choose life. This is Jesus on the Cross - this is the will of God.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Because where conservatives focus on justice for the baby, liberals focus on justice for the woman - and if you don’t think there are justice issues that affect women when it comes to reproductive rights and government regulation of pregnancy, you are gravely mistaken.

I am almost always puzzled initially when people talk about “justice” in a socioeconomic sense. It often seems to me it’s a ideological position. Possibly you could tell us what you mean when you talk about “focusing on justice for the woman”, or “justice issues that affect women” when it comes to reproductive rights and government regulation of pregnancy.