Despite Catholic teachings, women religiously take the pill

[rlg94086]

I suspect that those couples, Catholic and non-Catholic, who choose to use ABC don’t do so in agreement to commit a sin.** I doubt if it even crosses the minds of most of them.**

Sure…another sad statement on the state of our Church.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

So Bishops and educated Catholics need to assist more in the process?

Wouldn’t hurt if they did.

If I rememeber correctly, most Papal statements address the Bishops.

If so, the ones regarding Life ought to be addressed to those who are expected to act on them - the laity.

let’s be honest here, you weren’t going out of your way to defend Catholic teaching on this matter.

I wasn’t trying to. My points were that so many disregard the teaching.

I agree in principle, and would suggest that perhaps, though the original documents are difficult for many or most; nonetheless, educated Catholics and Bishops have a positive duty to make it understandable -as much as it needs to be- for the local laity, whose education and composition might vary wildly.

I’m not so sure about the positive duty of the educated laity, but the bishops certainly.

 

[rlg94086]

I agree, but even those with larger lifestyles may have fallen into the first two of your categories. I would hope that well-to-do couples like that would consider adopting children.

Yes - I wasn’t arguing that they don’t. My point is that there are too many of such families to logically conclude that most of them fall into those two categories. I believe, as you commented on the other post, that most people give no thought to serious economic or other concerns when choosing to contracept.

It has become part of our culture to aquire more luxuries in lieu of raising more children. Anyone who has more than 2-3 kids knows this, because you get a ton of comments from people about your knowledge of the where children come from, the availability of contraception, etc.; when you are pregnant with your 4th+.

 

[JimG]

“Though all of these things sounded nice enough, they seemed so weak and pale compared to the ultimate way of showing your spouse devotion and unconditional love: to implicitly say with every sexual act, “It’s OK with me if we should create a life together with this act.” What’s more romantic than that?”–Jennifer Fulwiler

 

[buffalo]

So what’s the minimum quota of Playstations and Nike swag a human being needs to live a happy life of fulfillment? All human beings need food, shelter and water; beyond that, what is most important for them and their development is the love of their parents.

.

There is research to back this up.

Too many parents are translating providing love into providing comforts and things.

A couple of items to note.

Both parents working - for what reason? Subsistence?

A couple not practicing any type of birth control and breast feeding will have anywhere from 4 to 12 children.

Total Fertility Rate

The total fertility rate in the United States after World War II peaked at about 3.8 children per woman in the late 1950s and by 1999 was at 2 children. This means that an imaginary woman (defined in the introduction) who fast-forwarded through her life in the late 1950s would have been expected to have about four children, whereas an imaginary woman who fast-forwarded through her life in 1999 would have been expected to have only about two children in her lifetime. The fertility rate of the total U.S. population is at around the replacement level of about 2.1 children per woman.

Period U.S. Total
Fertility
Rate[5] 1930–34 2.1 1935–39 2.0 1940–44 2.5 1945–49 3.0 1950–54 3.3 1955–59 3.7 1960–64 3.4 1965–69 2.6 1970–74 2.1 1975–79 1.8

Is the birth control industry a scam?

 

[rlg94086]

There is research to back this up.

Too many parents are translating providing love into providing comforts and things.

A couple of items to note.

Both parents working - for what reason? Subsistence?

A couple not practicing any type of birth control and breast feeding will have anywhere from 4 to 12 children.

Total Fertility Rate

The total fertility rate in the United States after World War II peaked at about 3.8 children per woman in the late 1950s and by 1999 was at 2 children. This means that an imaginary woman (defined in the introduction) who fast-forwarded through her life in the late 1950s would have been expected to have about four children, whereas an imaginary woman who fast-forwarded through her life in 1999 would have been expected to have only about two children in her lifetime. The fertility rate of the total U.S. population is at around the replacement level of about 2.1 children per woman.

Period U.S. Total
Fertility
Rate[5] 1930–34 2.1 1935–39 2.0 1940–44 2.5 1945–49 3.0 1950–54 3.3 1955–59 3.7 1960–64 3.4 1965–69 2.6 1970–74 2.1 1975–79 1.8

Hi buffalo,

You do have to take birth mortality rates into account, as well. Medical advances allow many babies to live that wouldn’t have survived childbirth in the past. That said, it is still an argument for NFP…not artificial birth control.

 

[Julianna]

There is research to back this up.

**1. **Too many parents are translating providing love into providing comforts and things.

A couple of items to note.

**2. **Both parents working - for what reason? Subsistence?

**3. **A couple not practicing any type of birth control and breast feeding will have anywhere from 4 to 12 children.

Total Fertility Rate

The total fertility rate in the United States after World War II peaked at about 3.8 children per woman in the late 1950s and by 1999 was at 2 children. This means that an imaginary woman (defined in the introduction) who fast-forwarded through her life in the late 1950s would have been expected to have about four children, whereas an imaginary woman who fast-forwarded through her life in 1999 would have been expected to have only about two children in her lifetime. The fertility rate of the total U.S. population is at around the replacement level of about 2.1 children per woman.

Period U.S. Total
Fertility
Rate[5] 1930–34 2.1 1935–39 2.0 1940–44 2.5 1945–49 3.0 1950–54 3.3 1955–59 3.7 1960–64 3.4 1965–69 2.6 1970–74 2.1 1975–79 1.8

1. Define “too many”. My DH and I have been married close to 29 yrs. and have 2 children. Spaced 21 mths apart. Is this what we could afford? Yes…for us…to avoid living under a bridge…yes. (ready for the slamming) I can take it I am a big girl. How many kids can you fit in a 14 x 60 mobile home? This was 1983. Yes…financial stability does often time equal the quality of life for a family.****

I later had a (not by choice) a hysterectomy. So that is over.

2. Both parents working outside the home is a reality to make it in this economy. I can’t get anymore “real” than that. If you want to “BUY” a house…both parents have to work and with the credit slump…getting to the point is even more difficult than when my DH and I bought our first home.

3. You are correct. See "the Dugger family"

Is the birth control industry a scam?

 

[buffalo]

I grew up with 4 brothers and sisters and both parents in a 22 x 40 home. My wife had 12 brothers and sisters and parents in a house about the same size. Every other day one or week I can’t remember on of them rotated onto the floor.

Talk to anyone of them and they wouldn’t trade the love and sharing for anything in the world. Most of them are selfless people.

 

[Sunflower15]

Have you seen some literature that claims that the use of contraceptives leads to divorce, infidelity, and fornication/adultery???

I’d like to see the statistics that claim that women on the pill, especially Catholic women, have a boyfriend on the side or a divorce lawyer on their speed dial. I agree with you that there can’t be any correlation except by coincidence.

I might be wrong, but I think it is more likely that the husbands of such women on the pill have issues with infidelity & end up divorcing them…women tend to notice these things and attempt to ‘protect’ themselves from being left with several little ones to tend to on their own…

I have heard of this connection between contraception and divorce many times as well. I think it sort of makes sense…if you analyze that someone who ‘loves’ half-way but not completely physically, may also do so emotionally, no?

Christopher West also alludes to these convergence between lack of commitment to the family in terms of contraception and in terms of fidelity to marriage…

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I grew up with 4 brothers and sisters and both parents in a 22 x 40 home.

Shouldn’t have been much of a problem as the girls would share their own room, you guys another, with your parents in the third. I myself was raised in a cold-water railroad flat in Brooklyn, NY, with two brothers and a sister. No bathroom, just a toilet cum sink off the kitchen. Baths were taken in a bathtub in the middle of the kitchen.

But, unlike your brothers and sisters, who “wouldn’t trade the sharing,” I, my siblings (and my parents) would have traded our flat for a house with a real bathroom and central heat in a New York minute!

My wife had 12 brothers and sisters and parents in a house about the same size. Every other day one or week I can’t remember on of them rotated onto the floor.

Now that was a problem!

 

[Sunflower15]

“though all of these things sounded nice enough, they seemed so weak and pale compared to the ultimate way of showing your spouse devotion and unconditional love: To implicitly say with every sexual act, “it’s ok with me if we should create a life together with this act.” what’s more romantic than that?”–jennifer fulwiler

nice!! =)

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I might be wrong, but I think it is more likely that the husbands of such women on the pill have issues with infidelity & end up divorcing them…women tend to notice these things and attempt to ‘protect’ themselves from being left with several little ones to tend to on their own…

I have heard of this connection between contraception and divorce many times as well. I think it sort of makes sense…if you analyze that someone who ‘loves’ half-way but not completely physically, may also do so emotionally, no?

While I agree that you have a point there, I think it a bit weak as there are millions of couples who go through life using ABC without considering divorce or having a boyfriend or girlfriend on the side.

 

[buffalo]

I might be wrong, but I think it is more likely that the husbands of such women on the pill have issues with infidelity & end up divorcing them…women tend to notice these things and attempt to ‘protect’ themselves from being left with several little ones to tend to on their own…

I have heard of this connection between contraception and divorce many times as well. I think it sort of makes sense…if you analyze that someone who ‘loves’ half-way but not completely physically, may also do so emotionally, no?

Christopher West also alludes to these convergence between lack of commitment to the family in terms of contraception and in terms of fidelity to marriage…

Contraception is nicknamed “The Berlin Wall” of marriage for a reason.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Contraception is nicknamed “The Berlin Wall” of marriage for a reason.

There are those who would consider it “Liberation Day,” too. If it were considered just a “Berlin Wall,” you’d see it hardly used at all. But, it is so routinely used that one might have to say that couples who use it like to live in “East Germany.”

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Dr. Janet Smith’s response:

What is Dr. Janet Smith a doctor of?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

They can take the pill all they want…they just won’t get into heaven.

While all grave matter endagers our salvation, how culpable inidviduals are for their sins is not our’s to judge. Who gets into heaven isn’t our call…

 

[Raphael777]

While all grave matter endagers our salvation, how culpable inidviduals are for their sins is not our’s to judge. Who gets into heaven isn’t our call…

Of course it’s not our call - I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. But contraception is grave matter, and if the person knows this and does it anyways, then they commit a mortal sin, and if they die without repenting of it (with a firm resolution to never do it again built into that) then that person will go to hell.

Now we can imagine couples that don’t really know that it is grave matter, but that doesn’t seem super-likely in America IMHO. I’m a convert, and if you would have asked me as a Bible-Belt Protestant back in High School then even I could have told you that Catholicism forbids artificial contraception. That’s just one of those things that is common knowledge, even among non-Catholics.

I really hope and pray that most of the Catholics who routinely contracept seriously don’t realize the gravity of it.

 

[edwest2]

But, practically speaking, teaching that the couple doesn’t agree with.

Not everyone wants to have the number of children that the two proud fathers on this thread have had - and good for them, by the way, that they were able to manage such large families.

So what if they don’t agree? If they don’t want to be obedient, that’s a problem. If they don’t want kids then don’t get married. And if they want fewer kids, there’s something called self control. They can agree on that also.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Sure…another sad statement on the state of our Church.

Did anybody read what Janet Smith wrote? One hour in Church is competing with many hours of oversexualized junk on TV. Who do you think people listen to more? Isn’t it obvious?

In the 1970s, when a few Catholics decided to live with their girlfriends and have sex, the excuse I heard was, We love each other. It was a scandal. Catholics complained. Then people began to say, “You can’t tell me what to do!” Today, it’s Hey. What’s the big deal?

Today, too many young women think this is what’s expected of them. Today, I hear guys casually talk about moving in with their girlfriends.

People deserve true love, which includes commitment, not just sex. That’s what’s missing. Just sex is never going to satisfy.

Young ladies, don’t settle for less than a commitment from the guy, but make sure you really get to know him first.

God bless,
Ed

 

[buffalo]

While all grave matter endagers our salvation, how culpable inidviduals are for their sins is not our’s to judge. Who gets into heaven isn’t our call…

If one does not try to fraternally correct do they become culpable?