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JSmitty2005
Guest
Balance said:
I don’t mind personal attacks on myself, but don’t mess with Fr. Corapi!
Don’t judge him. 
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I don’t mind personal attacks on myself, but don’t mess with Fr. Corapi!
Don’t judge him.
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Anonymous_1
Guest
lol where in the world do you get this teaching?
This is my understanding, correct me if i am wrong. Every grace and mercy and blessing comes to us from God through Jesus Christ. When Jesus died upon the Cross, it was an explosion of grace that extended from the very beginning to the very end. That means those who were saved before Christ were still saved by his redemptive acts and the merit obtained by Jesus upon the Cross.
“For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was also brought to life in the spirit. In it He also went to preach to the spirits in prison who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah.”
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Balance
Guest
It would seem likely to you perhaps, but not to the Church.
Ther Church has never proclaimed anyone is in hell, and in fact holds the hope that all go to heaven.
Looking at people like Stalin, Hitler, Rasputin and so on, and saying it’s likely they’ve gone to hell - where do we join the line? What’s the measure?
The choice between heaven and hell is between a person and God - it takes place in that relationship. So it’s not Hitler and God and umpteen million people dead in the war he caused deciding on his destiny, it’s just Hitler and God. It’s just me and God, not me and God and all the people I’ve sinned against by commission or omission. All sins are serious - it’s not that Hitler’s were so very serious and mine not very serious, so I stand a better chance of going to heaven.
We need to remember Christ’s words about salvation where he seems to say that our ultimate destiny depends on something as small as whether or not we gave a glass of water to a stranger when we had the opportunity to do so - not on how many people we killed.
We need to remember that God’s mercy is bigger than our biggest sin - if that weren’t true we might as well give up right now.
Remembering that, we won’t get into discussions about how someone’s sin seems so big that they could never have repented of it and been embraced by God and by his love and mercy.
Remembering that, we’ll trust in God’s love and mercy in our daily lives, and that will liberate us from wallowing in our sin and selfpity; it will energise us and give us the strength and courage to step out in faith and follow Christ more closely, to take risks in bringing his love to other people, to let go of our grudges and pride, to be unafraid and loving.
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Anonymous_1
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“whatever you did to the least of these breathren you did to me.”
If unrepentant, the murder of millions of people probally falls under the category of grave sin. It seems because Hitler killed himself he died in despair. However I am no man to limit God’s mercy.
God have mercy on us all, we are all weak and foolish and shortsighted ignorant.
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Balance
Guest
The imprssion I get from this - “don’t mess with Fr Corapi” - is that Corapi is someone who is agressive and pugilistic, a person who you wouldn’t want to “mess with” - is that what he’s like or are you misrepresenting him?I don’t mind personal attacks on myself, but don’t mess with Fr. Corapi!
I said it was no personal attack on you - I don’t even know you - I’d be ignorant to make a comment about you, or about Corapi wouldn’t I? However, I can make comments about what you say, or how you represent yourself.
I’m just making general comments - comments for which there is a basis because of the quote you’ve used as your signature. This quote comes across as arrogant, unloving, confronting, ignorant and judgemental - all I want to know is, is that what you are like, and what Corapi is like, or am I mistaken? If I am mistaken, would you accept that perhaps you need to choose another quote to use so that you won’t be mistaken again - a quote that more accurately reflects what you’re trying to say? (What are you trying to say in using that quote anyway? Would you please explain it to me?)
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Balance
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Anonymous_1 said:
because Hitler killed himself he died in despair. However I am no man to limit God’s mercy.
God have mercy on us all, we are all weak and foolish and shortsighted ignorant.
I don’t think there’s any dispute that the murder of millions of people is, objectively, a grave sin. Was it a grave sin for Hitler? We can say "yes probably, " or even “yes, of course” but that’s between him and God, and only between him and God - none of us can presume to make that call, however it may “seem”.
Neither can we say he died in despair and therefore went to hell - none of us know, exactly, what takes place between a soul and its Creator at the instant of death. Won’t that Creator, in his infinite (a word that, as humans, even intelligent humans, we can only begin to understand) love and mercy, be able to show himself to the soul in such a way that that soul will repent and enter into that mercy, regardless of what choices it made during its life, or in what “state” it died? To put it another way, won’t God exploit any and every loophole to bring each and every one of his children home to him, even those who’ve done the most gruesomely selfish things?
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Anonymous_1
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Balance said:
while I concede there are alot of protestants brethren who are living lives of Holiness. However, many being seperated from the teachings of the Church are not living lives of Holiness simply becasue the Churches they goto are New Age and relativistic. Many think homosexual unions are ok, contraception is ok, abortion is ok and so on. They are not equipped to live lives of Holiness.
Personally, I have no excuse, Im often equipped to grow in Holiness and simply fail to through my own fault. God have mercy on us all.
your handle is Balance, you should know there are two sides to every story.
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Anonymous_1
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re read what I posted, I did not disagree with you. So no need to continue clarifying. Maybe i just did not make myself clear. We are not one to capable of Judging.
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RobNY
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From John 6:
Ouch! Never realized it was so explicit!
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Anonymous_1
Guest
interesting
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Balance
Guest
grin yep, I thought of that while I was typing: “must remember to say that I’m not disagreeing with you, this is for other people’s benefit” but forgot by the time I’d finished. Sorry.
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Balance
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But they are equipped to live lives of holiness! And so many do, putting to shame, as I said, the majority of Catholics who don’t live such lives as they could, despite all the gifts God bestows through the Church.
I don’t really understand your last point - i chose Balance just because I do see both sides to every story. One side of this story is that Protestants are inferior Christians - am I not seeing the oither side?
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masterjedi747
Guest
I think that’s basically correct. But the people who died before Christ’s sacrifice still had to wait until that moment in time for entrance into Heaven. If Christ hadn’t come to re-open the gates of Heaven, they simply would have remained in that state of perfect happiness (Limbo) without the Beatific Vision. And correct me if I’m wrong…but I’m pretty darn sure that’s correct.
I definitely think you misunderstood me. :ehh:
I was making an objective observation (about what seems most likely), not judging the actual state of their souls. Of course I wish that everyone would reach Heaven…but we also know that there are people in Hell, both angels (such as Lucifer) and humans (no specific names).
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Anonymous_1
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I do not disagree that there are Christians outside of the Church who love God so much and are on fire for the Lord and are living authentic lives of Holiness. I also do not disagree that there are fallen away Cathollics and Catholics who are luke warm and indifferent.
I am simply stating that there are many who by virtue of being seperated from the fullness of truth are incapable of living lives of Holiness (though for many an argument could be made from ignorance).
An example is the countless liberal, new-age, relativistic denominations and “non-denomonations” that condone that which is inherently evil(e.g. sexual immorality, homosexual weddings, contraception, abortion, etc.)
In context of Fr. John Corapis quote, is it loving to allow those who are seperated from the Church that God left for us to continue to be ignorant and live in immorality? Maybe dessident is a bad word because it has demeaning connotations. Regardless though, the fact remains that by virtue Protestantism is inferior to Catholicism and that the Catholic Church is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church that Christ founded. It persists in teaching the fullness of truth by the protection, guidance and grace of God. As Catholics we are not doing our neighbor a favor by not sharing this truth with them. This is probally what Fr. Corapi intended to mean.
Just my thoughts.
I am simply stating that there are many who by virtue of being seperated from the fullness of truth are incapable of living lives of Holiness (though for many an argument could be made from ignorance).
An example is the countless liberal, new-age, relativistic denominations and “non-denomonations” that condone that which is inherently evil(e.g. sexual immorality, homosexual weddings, contraception, abortion, etc.)
How many of these same brethren you speak of will tell me im not a Christian because I am Catholic? There are two sides to every story.
In context of Fr. John Corapis quote, is it loving to allow those who are seperated from the Church that God left for us to continue to be ignorant and live in immorality? Maybe dessident is a bad word because it has demeaning connotations. Regardless though, the fact remains that by virtue Protestantism is inferior to Catholicism and that the Catholic Church is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church that Christ founded. It persists in teaching the fullness of truth by the protection, guidance and grace of God. As Catholics we are not doing our neighbor a favor by not sharing this truth with them. This is probally what Fr. Corapi intended to mean.
Just my thoughts.
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malachi_a_serva
Guest
Does it sound farfetched? lol1 Pet 3:19 “He went to preach to the spirts in prison” that place is called Hades (Hell). Noone could go to the third heaven of II Corr 12:2 because their sins have not been taken away (those that put their trust in the shed blood of the coming messiah) but only covered. Luke 16 illustrates two sides of Hell - comfort side and suffering side. Believers went to comfort side cause sins weren’t taken away, just covered.
Jesus said “it is finished” - which means his mission, his work on earth was completed. He lead captivity-lead them up on high (Eph. 4:8). Comfort side of Hades has since been vacated. The lost still wait on the suffering side. They are in the “local jail”, the “holding cell” awaiting final judgment and to be thrown into Gehenna (final penitentery)…where Rev 20 11-15 "the sea gave up death and Hell (hades-the suffering side) then death and Hades gave up the dead which were in it. -then death and Hades cast into “the lake of Fire” - Gehenna.
Any clearer?
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JSmitty2005
Guest
Are you a hippie?
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Marilena
Guest
Who is Fthr. Corapi? And how did he get into this post?
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Anonymous_1
Guest
malachi_a_serva said:
1 Pet 3:19 “He went to preach to the spirts in prison” that place is called Hades (Hell). Noone could go to the third heaven of II Corr 12:2 because their sins have not been taken away (those that put their trust in the shed blood of the coming messiah) but only covered. Luke 16 illustrates two sides of Hell - comfort side and suffering side. Believers went to comfort side cause sins weren’t taken away, just covered.
Jesus said “it is finished” - which means his mission, his work on earth was completed. He lead captivity-lead them up on high (Eph. 4:8). Comfort side of Hades has since been vacated. The lost still wait on the suffering side. They are in the “local jail”, the “holding cell” awaiting final judgment and to be thrown into Gehenna (final penitentery)…where Rev 20 11-15 "the sea gave up death and Hell (hades-the suffering side) then death and Hades gave up the dead which were in it. -then death and Hades cast into “the lake of Fire” - Gehenna.
Any clearer?
Buddy,
do not take offense, but I believe your theology is distorted. For example, in Luke 16, it does not allude to Lazarus being in Hell but in Heaven. You should be careful about what you teach.
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JSmitty2005
Guest
A great priest. I apologize that Balance has hijacked your thread. It is simply carry-over from a hissy in another thread. Sorry about that.
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Anonymous_1
Guest
its my fault as well…
sorry
sorry
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