Did Adam and Eve have complete dominion of reason over appetite?

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hergratefulchild said:
We must also look to these events as knowingly planned by God to offer us an even greater gift of forgiveness, thus showing his love and what love is.
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A greater gift of forgiveness is in knowing that God forgave us before He even created us, before we even existed. It is through understanding ourselves and humanity that we can see, as Jesus observed, we do not know what we are doing when we sin. In His omniscience, God already sees this.
 
hergratefulchild said:
But to deny the existence of evil is a dangerous game.
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There is a big difference between “evil occurring” and the assertion that an “evil force exists”.

The former is simple acknowledgement of sin, that it happens. The latter is dualistic.

There is nothing “wrong” with dualism, in my opinion, it is very natural, but in time it behooves the believer to forgive the “enemy within” through understanding and forgiving all aspects of ourselves, to see that all we are comes from God.
 
OneSheep said:
Would you say that a person of mature faith could look at the story of Adam and Eve, see its good intent of the story (encouraging obedience), yet be able to see that the Gospel presents a completely different image of God and humanity? See post 107 above.
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I didn’t see post # 107 before now.
I can relate to this way of thinking.

You saw my Leviticus thread, and my questions.

I’m not sure just how many people think about the fall in scripture, I’d say many people have matured since the Gospel spread through out the world, not all of course! 😃
 
hergratefulchild said:
evil forces do exist, do they not?
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The answer to that is going to be based on how a person views himself/herself. If there is part of oneself that a person resents, then it is natural to consider any motive or drive coming from that part as “evil” or an “evil force”. In my own observation, this is an important part of self-control, part of conscience formation.

For example, let’s say that a person has acted on his own natural desire to dominate, and has hurt people because his own desire to dominate has temporarily blinded his empathy and love for others. In addition, he has been hurt when others have done the same and he is the victim of such desire for dominance coupled with blindness. This person’s conscience will naturally form to resent their own desire to dominate, and such resentment will motivate the person to pay attention when desire to dominate is going against reason and mercy. Indeed, the person sees desire to dominate itself as an “evil force”, and this perception is helpful to behavioral control.

However, objectively speaking, is desire to dominate an “evil force”? Are there other examples of “evil forces” you can think of that to which I am saying here do not apply?
 
can we try and keep replies short, for ease of conversation please. Sin is an evil force, one that come from the devil to draw us away from God. is this statment not true?
 
Thank you, I read post 107. But he is still the same God, he hasnt changed… we have.
 
hergratefulchild said:
can we try and keep replies short, for ease of conversation please.
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I see that you do like to be brief, but your questions do not call for brief answers. Believe it or not, I try to be as brief as possible.
hergratefulchild said:
Sin is an evil force, one that come from the devil to draw us away from God. is this statment not true?
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Perhaps if you can give an example of a sin, then we can see if it truly comes from an “evil force”. There is not going to be a wrong answer to this question, it is going to depend on a person’s spiritual outlook.
 
hergratefulchild said:
Thank you, I read post 107. But he is still the same God, he hasnt changed… we have.
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Yes! WE HAVE! And what has changed about us is that through the Gospel we can see a different image of God. Jesus shows us a Father who loves and forgives unconditionally.
 
God was always the same, the image has always stayed the same.
 
hergratefulchild said:
God was always the same, the image has always stayed the same.
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So, when people saw that God wanted them to kill entire villages of people, this was not a different image of God than a Father who loves all of His children? When one person says that God is wrathful, and another not, this demonstrates different images, right?

Have you read Pope Benedict’s writing about how some people present the image of a “sinister God”?

People, even groups of people, will have different images of God.
 
just to very briefly track back and answer the topic titled question: Did Adam and Eve have dominion of reason over appetie.

No, they had complete freedom to choose what they did, only to obbey God and not eat from the tree of life or knowledge of good and evil. the only reasoning that was required of them they chose not to do.
 
The Pope was right to lead people not to think of a sinister God, he is who he is.
 
to bring things to points:

God destroys and builds
Adam and Eve were decieved by the Devil to disobey God
The temptation to Sin is to willfully turn away from God and a force of evil.
 
hergratefulchild said:
Cain and Abel is a perfect example, jelousy
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Excellent example. Jealousy itself begins with a desire to be someone else, or to have what someone else has, and like all desires, the desire itself compromises the conscience and when the desire is strong, our own empathy toward other people is blocked. A person of natural conscience will come to resent their own capacity to be jealous, he will see the capacity for jealousy as an “evil force”, right?

However, a person can come to see the innate desire to be someone else or have what they have as a natural gift from God, so the impression of such desire being an “evil force” can go away. However, if a person is still struggling with their own jealousy, then it will be extremely difficult to see the desire as a gift, the person struggling is better off getting their discipline in control. Do you see what I mean? Spiritual development is a big factor in the answer.

I can’t be more brief on that, sorry! 🙂
 
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