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DeniseNY
Guest
To anyone who disagrees with the decisions of bishops, how many bodies are you comfortable seeing piled up because social distancing wasn’t practiced?
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Emeraldlady
New member
If Trumps government was the agent of suppressing churches after this is over, then it’ll only be because not even that would stop his radical Christian followers from voting for him.Pattylt:
The hatred that some have for Catholicism and freedom to practice our religion, founded as it was by God himself is immense (and always has been.) Why would anyone assume the present to be different?
po18guy
Well-known member
Food for thought - although I may be preaching to the choir, so to speak.
www.latimes.com
From the article:
A choir decided to go ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens of members have COVID-19 and two are dead
The deadly outbreak among members of a choir has stunned health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms.
www.latimes.com
From the article:
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pnewton
Guest
Yes, of course. They are safe until they contact something that is infected. That said, hands can be disinfected, and are, according to the CDC.
That is why I would suggest a sign up, not a public Mass. There could even be designated seats. Grocery stores are doing this with blue tape to maintain distance.
I note, by the way, that several stores are still open, some even rather crowded.
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pnewton
Guest
That is not a fair question. I could ask how many people are we comfortable see going to Hell. Neither question makes no sense, though the latter, according to Jesus, is of greater importance. The OP wanted to know if the it is okay to question the bishop on this. The point is, there is more than one way to preserve life, both physical and eternal.
FYI, we are still going to have Holy Week Masses, although there will only be the people involved that are necessary for the Mass, and one person to video it.
FYI, we are still going to have Holy Week Masses, although there will only be the people involved that are necessary for the Mass, and one person to video it.
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pnewton
Guest
From the article:
This would be before precautions of any kind were in place then, I take it? I can’t read the article. I think the more important point is no one had symptoms. Everyone must be assumed to be symptomatic, not just at Church, but elsewhere in public, like stores and restaurants.
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puer.dei
Guest
Why would anyone assume that rules set in place for everyone, for the safety of everyone, are an attack on the Catholic Church? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
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JulianN
Guest
Are you somewhere the rest of us are not? Some place where the Catholic Church is being forbidden to hold Mass, but the rest of life is going on unimpeded?
Here in the US, that’s not happening. All large gatherings are prohibited, not just Mass. Restaurants, theaters and other non-essential businesses are closed.
Our bishops voluntarily suspended public Masses to protect their people.
What part of the world are you in where there is this singling out of the Church?
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phil3
Guest
A very strange post
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VonDerTann
Guest
Denise’s question is a totally fair one and you have no answer. Rather your “answer” essentially says it’s better to go to mass and die (or kill others) than to stay home.
Now, under your plan to have “assigned seats” - more problems.
Now every church needs a website with what’s akin to a Major League Baseball
Team’s where you pick your seats to masses - and those are expanding in number. Do you have any idea how much bandwidth/size those sites need? And how they’re constantly freezing up? And I guess we need to now mark off pews with row numbers like rows at the ballpark! And mark off seats in the pews. Who does that? Are we hauling out paint at church to do this? Ballparks also employ ushers to help people find their seats. Do we need these too? Not only does your plan require them (there’s always ushers at mass), it requires LOTS of them - since your plan calls for many more masses, and they need close interaction with everyone coming in (to see where they go and help them get there).
As I keep stating, none of your plan changes these facts: your plan is increasing complex; requires various people to implement and enforce; and never addresses the central reality: it calls for more people outside their homes, interacting with others, at a time it’s dangerous to do so.
Your plan sounds more “rocket to Alpha Centauri” the more you explain it - just like most pet projects on the web. It’s a bad idea.
Now, under your plan to have “assigned seats” - more problems.
Now every church needs a website with what’s akin to a Major League Baseball
Team’s where you pick your seats to masses - and those are expanding in number. Do you have any idea how much bandwidth/size those sites need? And how they’re constantly freezing up? And I guess we need to now mark off pews with row numbers like rows at the ballpark! And mark off seats in the pews. Who does that? Are we hauling out paint at church to do this? Ballparks also employ ushers to help people find their seats. Do we need these too? Not only does your plan require them (there’s always ushers at mass), it requires LOTS of them - since your plan calls for many more masses, and they need close interaction with everyone coming in (to see where they go and help them get there).
As I keep stating, none of your plan changes these facts: your plan is increasing complex; requires various people to implement and enforce; and never addresses the central reality: it calls for more people outside their homes, interacting with others, at a time it’s dangerous to do so.
Your plan sounds more “rocket to Alpha Centauri” the more you explain it - just like most pet projects on the web. It’s a bad idea.
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LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
You are free to feel however you want about anything. However I would say to your objection that perhaps you might do well to really think about how much not being able to go to Mass for Holy week is a first world problem and not really a problem at all.
People are dying out there. We can still watch Mass on the TV. I dont want Easter vigil cancelled either. I help teach rcia. I want to see the students Baptised. But its not worth it to get upset about.
Let’s say you go to Easter vigil and get infected with covid 19. Then a week from now you go to the store to get food. You wait in line next to a old woman who wishes she could stay home but needs to get food so she goes to the store. She gets infected by you. She is at a higher risk of death then a young person. She did not consent to any higher risk of infection, she is just trying to get food. That is the problem with the logic that “I accept the risk so what is the problem?”
People are dying out there. We can still watch Mass on the TV. I dont want Easter vigil cancelled either. I help teach rcia. I want to see the students Baptised. But its not worth it to get upset about.
Let’s say you go to Easter vigil and get infected with covid 19. Then a week from now you go to the store to get food. You wait in line next to a old woman who wishes she could stay home but needs to get food so she goes to the store. She gets infected by you. She is at a higher risk of death then a young person. She did not consent to any higher risk of infection, she is just trying to get food. That is the problem with the logic that “I accept the risk so what is the problem?”
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VonDerTann
Guest
Laughingboy, I agree with you, so
I’m not sure if you’re addressing your comment to me (it appears so).
Who’s upset? Not me. I’m just pointing out the various flaws in these random “let’s get mass going again!”-plans.
If I keep people in their homes, I’ll view that as a good thing. Lots of people have choice words for me for doing so; Joe Freedom stomped off because he was getting too worked up (which isn’t my problem).
I’m not sure if you’re addressing your comment to me (it appears so).
Who’s upset? Not me. I’m just pointing out the various flaws in these random “let’s get mass going again!”-plans.
If I keep people in their homes, I’ll view that as a good thing. Lots of people have choice words for me for doing so; Joe Freedom stomped off because he was getting too worked up (which isn’t my problem).
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englands123
Guest
In England we have a lack of priests. More and more priests are coming from outside England to help. Many churches WILL CLOSE over the next 10 years because there is not enough worshippers, priests or financial reasons.
Many churches will become one , covering huge areas.
Why put elderly priests in danger of the virus or worshiping folk ?
Many churches will become one , covering huge areas.
Why put elderly priests in danger of the virus or worshiping folk ?
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ElizabethECB
Guest
First, Jesus practiced obedience to the law. We need to do the same.
Second, As Catholics we need to take care of one another! Do not risk spreading this disease to the ill and elderly!
…Remember that Jesús’ main message to us was to treat one another as He would and the Church is about how we treat each other rather than it’s formal rituals. This is the greatest test of our true practices! Do we take care of one another or focus on rituals to a fault of ignoring the vulnerable?
Second, As Catholics we need to take care of one another! Do not risk spreading this disease to the ill and elderly!
…Remember that Jesús’ main message to us was to treat one another as He would and the Church is about how we treat each other rather than it’s formal rituals. This is the greatest test of our true practices! Do we take care of one another or focus on rituals to a fault of ignoring the vulnerable?
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DeniseNY
Guest
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DeniseNY
Guest
Disturbing video shows dead bodies loaded onto truck outside NYC hospitals
The coronavirus pandemic has slammed New York City so hard that health care workers are using forklifts to load dead bodies into refrigerated trucks, according to a viral video. The 5-minute and 32…
nypost.com
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
I was not directing my comments at you. Did you get a indictation that my reply was to you? If so, it was not intentional. I was replying to the op.
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mary15
Guest
Read the article and “Out of Love” came to me. Thank you for posting this.
If we Love one another, out of love, we will:
Obey, Stay, Pray.
If we Love one another, out of love, we will:
Obey, Stay, Pray.
C
commenter
Guest
From Facebook post by Fr. Dismas Sayre, OP:
One argument I see repeatedly is that the Church did not close during the Black Plague, etc, nor did She suspend services.
Entire villages and monasteries got wiped off the face of the Earth during the Black Plague. My own Order was decimated. That is not the example you wish to use. If we had better science then, we would have shut down a lot more things more quickly to save lives.
But in modern times, depending on circumstances and severity, the Spanish Flu did in fact shut down churches, and yes, with respect to civil authority. I have seen articles from my own province’s parishes with my own eyes, long before this started, stating so.
To wit: In Philadelphia, a city that decided to throw a parade at one point during the Spanish Flu and sickened countless more, not only were services suspended “until further notice”, but permission was granted to use various church buildings such as halls and schools, as clinics and hospitals. Sisters were also granted permission to serve as nurses, if available.
Now, if those 13,000-16,000 deaths could have been avoided by suspending everything a little earlier, with a little hindsight, you bet we would have.
To those who said the Church is cowardly with their actions, you soil the reputation of those sisters, at least 23 of which died during the flu just in Philadelphia, plus however many priests, religious, and seminarians, in staying IN the heart of the epidemic and ministering to the sick.
We are not going anywhere. We are on call, wherever we need to go and are allowed to go (and we will fight to get to where we need to go).
One argument I see repeatedly is that the Church did not close during the Black Plague, etc, nor did She suspend services.
Entire villages and monasteries got wiped off the face of the Earth during the Black Plague. My own Order was decimated. That is not the example you wish to use. If we had better science then, we would have shut down a lot more things more quickly to save lives.
But in modern times, depending on circumstances and severity, the Spanish Flu did in fact shut down churches, and yes, with respect to civil authority. I have seen articles from my own province’s parishes with my own eyes, long before this started, stating so.
To wit: In Philadelphia, a city that decided to throw a parade at one point during the Spanish Flu and sickened countless more, not only were services suspended “until further notice”, but permission was granted to use various church buildings such as halls and schools, as clinics and hospitals. Sisters were also granted permission to serve as nurses, if available.
Now, if those 13,000-16,000 deaths could have been avoided by suspending everything a little earlier, with a little hindsight, you bet we would have.
To those who said the Church is cowardly with their actions, you soil the reputation of those sisters, at least 23 of which died during the flu just in Philadelphia, plus however many priests, religious, and seminarians, in staying IN the heart of the epidemic and ministering to the sick.
We are not going anywhere. We are on call, wherever we need to go and are allowed to go (and we will fight to get to where we need to go).
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