Disruptive little ones at Mass

[dailey]

Where is your consideration for people trying to worship at mass? The idea that kids can eat Cheerios, play games, climb, talk, cry constantly, fight with each other, walk around while mom and dad smile and nod and I’m the one that needs to accept that they are just children being children? The point is I do…it isn’t th children’s fault at all, it is the permissive, selfish attitude of the parents. I have a perfect right to expect that I can attend mass without being assaulted by children whose parents are so clueless that they let them do whatever they want. If parents can’t control their kids in mass they should get a sitter or stay home, ruining the mass for everyone else is not an option.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

I completely agree with you. I have 3 small children, who I might add, do not always have the best behavior. I have had store clerks, managers, etc. give them dirty looks/scold them, on occasion. HOWEVER, they know when it comes to church, they had BETTER behave. They are expected to sit still, with no snacks, toys, etc, for one hour a week to worship our Lord. They are only 2, 4 and 7 but they have a strong sense of God and you better believe they are “God-fearing” children (I am old school). IMO, too many parents don’t instill this in their kids.

As far as those with children with disabilities, I can relate as my sister is autistic. I think in that situation, it is best to sit in back in case the child becomes disruptive. This way you can make a quick exit, if need be.

 

[HAnne]

I completely agree with you. I have 3 small children, who I might add, do not always have the best behavior. I have had store clerks, managers, etc. give them dirty looks/scold them, on occasion. HOWEVER, they know when it comes to church, they had BETTER behave. They are expected to sit still, with no snacks, toys, etc, for one hour a week to worship our Lord. They are only 2, 4 and 7 but they have a strong sense of God and you better believe they are “God-fearing” children (I am old school). IMO, too many parents don’t instill this in their kids.

As far as those with children with disabilities, I can relate as my sister is autistic. I think in that situation, it is best to sit in back in case the child becomes disruptive. This way you can make a quick exit, if need be.

Dailey -

I have been told by people such as you and Iowa Mike that my son is “disruptive to the Mass” and rude. He did precisely three things in this Mass - and it was only the 2nd of his life because we are in the process of becoming Catholic. He put his hands over his ears at the organ. He didn’t know when he was supposed to sit or stand so a few times he accidentally stood instead of sitting, knelt instead, etc. Last, but not least, he forgot where he was supposed to go after he was blessed by the priest so he kind of wandered for a minute before I could get over there and show him back to our pew.

That’s it.

No toys, food, or other “poor” behavior.

No offense, some people could relax and be understanding of ALL of God’s creatures.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Babies crying at Mass and youngsters being youngsters at Mass is as Catholic as Holy Water. Get there early, sit in the front pew and get over it.

No it’s not as Catholic as Holy Water…I’ve been a Catholic for a long time. I have no problem with children…I have a big problem with doting parents that make no effort to control their little darlings.

As for the single mother with multiple children…she can’t leave the nave with a crying child and leave the rest behind…non-sense. If parents can’t keep their children under control for a single hour I can only imagine what home is like. The notion everyone should make allowances is just a hedonistic notion on the part of people who believe the world revolves around their needs.

I see parents with multiple kids…single parents with multiple kids…whose children are very well behaved. They need and they get occasional parental corrections during mass to keep them that way. But if the child goes off the rails they just as quick to remove them from the nave…as they should in consideration of everyone else at mass.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[MissClaire]

My parish has a LOT of younger kids, as in 6 and younger. However, we don’t have many of the problems I see talked about on here.
We have a nursery, which is downstairs, where children younger than either kindergarten or pre-k can go (I can’t remember which, sorry). We also have a cry room, which is great. While sometimes we can hear the babies crying back there, it’s usually not loud enough to distract.
But I love kids and babysit a lot, so it takes a lot for me to get irritable at young ones. They’re in training and don’t know any better. If they get too loud, they are taken back to the cry room or the narthex.
(The cry room is also used for small gatherings at times. We meet before Mass for a group Rosary on Tuesdays and Thursdays there. It’s wonderful.)

Pax and God Bless.

 

[phoooiee]

Where is your consideration for people trying to worship at mass? The idea that kids can eat Cheerios, play games, climb, talk, cry constantly, fight with each other, walk around while mom and dad smile and nod and I’m the one that needs to accept that they are just children being children? The point is I do…it isn’t th children’s fault at all, it is the permissive, selfish attitude of the parents. I have a perfect right to expect that I can attend mass without being assaulted by children whose parents are so clueless that they let them do whatever they want. If parents can’t control their kids in mass they should get a sitter or stay home, ruining the mass for everyone else is not an option.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

EVERYONE at Mass should be trying to learn charity. That is the point of worship- to transform ourselves in Christ and become more like Him. However, we ALL fail at this- whether it’s due to our imperfect parenting skills or our tendency to judge others.

I will tell you, for the first year of my second son’s life, I had stomach pain every holy day because of my fear of being judged in this way. I have had many meetings with my priest discussing this, and each time he has advised me that children are children and some people will be cranky, but this is just because they are cranky and not because of me and my kids. That doesn’t make it hurt less the few times someone has glared at me for my kids’ behavior. The fact is, whether I am an adequate parent or a poor parent, no one’s judgment and unkind behavior will do a thing to help me, or my children, or even the orderly atmosphere in the Mass. Most of the time, unkindness just makes everything worse, and sin begets more sin.

I’m going to keep on going to Mass, with my two kids, stomach pain or no stomach pain. But it really does make it harder when one has to face this sort of thing. I sincerely pray that no young parents reading this thread will be driven away- we all have the right to expect love at Mass, not disapproval. Where I have been able to get past this sort of attitude, thankfully I have found love there.

The more I read of this, the more I am grateful that Christ forgives us our inadequacies. I do, however, hope that all of us can learn to do the same. Otherwise, why even go to Mass? After all, Christ came for sinners, not the righteous. I hope we can all learn to help others find God’s love.

 

[Lapey]

No it’s not as Catholic as Holy Water…I’ve been a Catholic for a long time. I have no problem with children…I have a big problem with doting parents that make no effort to control their little darlings.

As for the single mother with multiple children…she can’t leave the nave with a crying child and leave the rest behind…non-sense. If parents can’t keep their children under control for a single hour I can only imagine what home is like. The notion everyone should make allowances is just a hedonistic notion on the part of people who believe the world revolves around their needs.

I see parents with multiple kids…single parents with multiple kids…whose children are very well behaved. They need and they get occasional parental corrections during mass to keep them that way. But if the child goes off the rails they just as quick to remove them from the nave…as they should in consideration of everyone else at mass.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

Try reading Matthew 18:1-5. I believe you will find that Jesus welcomed children just as they were. In fact I think I can remember His words being, “…the kingdom of heaven is for such as these.”

“The notion everyone should make allowances is just a hedonistic notion on the part of people who believe the world revolves around their needs.”

Can you see the judgment and anger in your words here? So are you calling me a heathen because I ask that you be a Christian and show charity to those whom we worship with??? Can you see the hypocrisy in your words? The world evolves around me because I want to bring my children to mass without being chastised by evil looks, yet you tell us in your words that the world evolves around you.

This Church that Jesus has built on the rock, Peter, was built for all, not just you sir! It is not your mass.

You are part of a worshipping community, not a group of perfect people like yourself. There are thieves, bigots, adulteress’, divorced and remarried, possibly abortionist, maybe murderers, etc. (I think you get the point) included in congregations within the Church everywhere. Guess what sir, it is not your duty to put all the bad people out of mass so you can enjoy the purity of your own presence, you could do that at home with your mirror.

I feel better now, sorry to all of you whom this message is not meant.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Dailey -

I have been told by people such as you and Iowa Mike that my son is “disruptive to the Mass” and rude. He did precisely three things in this Mass - and it was only the 2nd of his life because we are in the process of becoming Catholic. He put his hands over his ears at the organ. He didn’t know when he was supposed to sit or stand so a few times he accidentally stood instead of sitting, knelt instead, etc. Last, but not least, he forgot where he was supposed to go after he was blessed by the priest so he kind of wandered for a minute before I could get over there and show him back to our pew.

That’s it.

No toys, food, or other “poor” behavior.

No offense, some people could relax and be understanding of ALL of God’s creatures.

You know what…that isn’t at all what I’m talking about. I was singing a hymn once and a little boy of about 7 turned around and looked at me and put his hands over his ears. I nearly swallowed my tongue in laughter. Kids making a face or making an error in standing or kneeling are not the issue. It is the kids who are playing with toys, talking loudly, laughing, eating, whining, crying, fighting with their siblings, walking back and forth in the seat etc. etc.

I’ve got a lot of grandchildren and I take them to mass and other public places and, as kids do, they sometimes become disruptive. When they do I correct them and if necessary and in consideration for the people around me, I take them someplace quiet to cool off. It ain’t hard, this ain’t about the children…it is all about the parents who don 't parent. Making excuses for adults who show complete disregard for the people around them while they pamper junior is why we are where we are.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

EVERYONE at Mass should be trying to learn charity. That is the point of worship- to transform ourselves in Christ and become more like Him. However, we ALL fail at this- whether it’s due to our imperfect parenting skills or our tendency to judge others.

I will tell you, for the first year of my second son’s life, I had stomach pain every holy day because of my fear of being judged in this way. I have had many meetings with my priest discussing this, and each time he has advised me that children are children and some people will be cranky, but this is just because they are cranky and not because of me and my kids. That doesn’t make it hurt less the few times someone has glared at me for my kids’ behavior. The fact is, whether I am an adequate parent or a poor parent, no one’s judgment and unkind behavior will do a thing to help me, or my children, or even the orderly atmosphere in the Mass. Most of the time, unkindness just makes everything worse, and sin begets more sin.

I’m going to keep on going to Mass, with my two kids, stomach pain or no stomach pain. But it really does make it harder when one has to face this sort of thing. I sincerely pray that no young parents reading this thread will be driven away- we all have the right to expect love at Mass, not disapproval. Where I have been able to get past this sort of attitude, thankfully I have found love there.

The more I read of this, the more I am grateful that Christ forgives us our inadequacies. I do, however, hope that all of us can learn to do the same. Otherwise, why even go to Mass? After all, Christ came for sinners, not the righteous. I hope we can all learn to help others find God’s love.

So what kind of behavior draws this kind of attention? If I know the parents of a child who is disruptive during mass I will say something to them after mass. I never say anything to the parents or to the children during mass with a couple of exceptions.

If the children are high school age or older I’ll say something to them directly. A couple of years ago at Christmas mass I sat behind two boys I would judge to be 16 or 17 years old. They apparently were friends and were attending mass with one of the mothers. They joked, poked each other, laughed, squirmed, nudged etc. throughout the mass. Mom was oblivious but it was ruining mass for me. At the consecration I tapped one of the boys on the shoulder and in a ‘street voice’ asked them to take it outside or shut-up as this was the most holy part of the mass. The two boys, to their credit, were mortified and became extremely quiet and respectful for the remainder of the mass…mom didn’t even look up from her mass book. At the end of mass they all left together.

I’ve done the same on a few other occasions because the kid’s conduct was outrageous, disruptive, disrespectful and unnecessary. If the parents or guardians were with the kids when I said something to them they have never confronted me about it.

So I ask again, what are your kids doing that is so embarrassing? If they are really disruptive what is your opinion about how their conduct impacts their ability to worship?

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

My parish has a LOT of younger kids, as in 6 and younger. However, we don’t have many of the problems I see talked about on here.
We have a nursery, which is downstairs, where children younger than either kindergarten or pre-k can go (I can’t remember which, sorry). We also have a cry room, which is great. While sometimes we can hear the babies crying back there, it’s usually not loud enough to distract.
But I love kids and babysit a lot, so it takes a lot for me to get irritable at young ones. They’re in training and don’t know any better. If they get too loud, they are taken back to the cry room or the narthex.
(The cry room is also used for small gatherings at times. We meet before Mass for a group Rosary on Tuesdays and Thursdays there. It’s wonderful.)

Pax and God Bless.

Good plan.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[dailey]

Okay, this is getting beyond silly.

Like I have stated already, I have 3 small children myself. Once upon a time, I had to sit all the way in the back (or even in the foyer) to prevent them from disrupting mass. It is the considerate thing to do. I am baffled as to why so many parents in this thread are sitting there scratching their heads as to why some of us might not appreciate the racket of their kids?? I think this is bordering on a sense of pride.

And for the record, I am not complaining about the occasional outburst from a bored kid, but rather the ones that throughout mass, behave badly.

@Hanne…what you explained about your sons behavior is not what I am referring to. Obviously, he did nothing that would warrant someone to call him disruptive.

TRUST ME, I am very understanding of all GODS creatures. My sister is severally autistic, I could never take her to church. She would be doing summersaults in the isles!

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Try reading Matthew 18:1-5. I believe you will find that Jesus welcomed children just as they were. In fact I think I can remember His words being, “…the kingdom of heaven is for such as these.”

“The notion everyone should make allowances is just a hedonistic notion on the part of people who believe the world revolves around their needs.”

Can you see the judgment and anger in your words here? So are you calling me a heathen because I ask that you be a Christian and show charity to those whom we worship with??? Can you see the hypocrisy in your words? The world evolves around me because I want to bring my children to mass without being chastised by evil looks, yet you tell us in your words that the world evolves around you.

This Church that Jesus has built on the rock, Peter, was built for all, not just you sir! It is not your mass.

You are part of a worshipping community, not a group of perfect people like yourself. There are thieves, bigots, adulteress’, divorced and remarried, possibly abortionist, maybe murderers, etc. (I think you get the point) included in congregations within the Church everywhere. Guess what sir, it is not your duty to put all the bad people out of mass so you can enjoy the purity of your own presence, you could do that at home with your mirror.

I feel better now, sorry to all of you whom this message is not meant.

I hope you feel better about this. Do you recall the story about Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple. He overturned their tables and chased them from the temple with a strap. Jesus gave us a message in Mark 11:15-17;

[15] And they came to Jerusalem. And when he was entered into the temple, he began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the chairs of them that sold doves. [16] And he suffered not that any man should carry a vessel through the temple; [17] And he taught, saying to them: Is it not written, My house shall be called the house of prayer to all nations? But you have made it a den of thieves.

The mass is Christ’s sacrifice made present. It is a time for reverence, prayer, giving thanks and alms. This is what children need to be taught and there are plenty of great parents that do so evidenced by the behavior of their children. And then there are the parents who believe that everyone should make allowances for their little darlings who have not been schooled in even simple manners.

I didn’t call you a heathen (your label not mine) and I’ve shown no hypocrisy or inconsistency in my remarks.

Guess what sir, it is not your duty to put all the bad people out of mass so you can enjoy the purity of your own presence, you could do that at home with your mirror.

It seems I’ve hit a cord. It is typical of liberal Catholics to start tossing invective, sarcasm and mud bombs when they lack argument. I am making a case that parents have an obligation to train their children in proper behavior at mass and that they have a responsibility not to disrupt other people during mass. You argue to the contrary and you argue that I’m being intolerant. You apparently think that it’s OK to turn the nave into a ‘playpen’. Allow me to point out that tolerance does not mean that one must accept bad or immoral behavior as the norm. Sure I’m intolerant of bad parenting, disruptive children, irreverence at mass, immoral behavior etc. etc. as any good Catholic should be. So I consider it my Catholic duty to charitably correct my brother Catholics. The mass is not form of entertainment and people who don’t want to pay attention to the mass shouldn’t disturb those that do.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

I bring my little girl to Mass (she just turned 6). When she was younger, I brought her little snacks and quiet toys (I was always mindful of quite toys). But as she got older, the toys and snacks went away and I added a reward to the mix. I always take her out to lunch after Mass (our 10:45 Mass usually ends around noon).

If she is “good” (pays attention, says the prayers she knows, is quiet) she gets to pick where we eat lunch. She’s usually good–she probably would be even without the reward, but it’s a nice carrot. Although the problem I run into is that she feels the need to whisper to me every 10-15 minutes, “am I being good?” Luckily for those around me, this only disrupts my focus, not theirs (I hope). She is also at a question stage, you wouldn’t believe how many questions I had to answer this past Sunday about the Advent candles, etc.

Despite being “good” for most Masses, sometimes, every few months, she does misbehave and I am at my wits end. Those are the times I end up having to take her out of the sanctuary. One time, on a Holy Day I had to work and I could only take her to an evening Mass–right near her bedtime. She started misbehaving and getting fussy and I recognized she was just too tired to behave (and I was tired too after a long day at work and was getting too frustrated myself). I left Mass early.

I asked a priest about it and he said not to feel embarrassed and not to feel obligated to leave Mass like that again.

Look, all children act out a little. Not a problem. When you child is extremely disruptive I think it is a good idea and practice to go to the cry room or gathering area so as not to disturb others at mass. As for your priest, I think he was making a supportive comment. I totally agree that you should come to mass and bring your child. By removing your child when they are disruptive is a teaching moment. They learn that that behavior is not acceptable to mom and to the environment they are in. My niece was asked to leave mass because of the disruption being caused by here handicapped son. She also has a handicapped daughter and a normal son. She called looking for comfort…I supported the priests decision to ask her to leave and we worked out a number of alternative solutions that would solve the problem.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Wow - some people are unbelievable.

What about a single Mom or a parent who has to take children to Mass alone for other reasons? Is she to take the disruptive child out and leave her other children to be alone during Mass???

What about parishes that don’t have a cry room available like all 3 of the parishes I attend?

What about children who are reaching or have just reached the age of reason with developmental disorders?

There are so many variables here!! How can I possibly adequately prepare my sensory processing disorder and dyspraxic child for his Sacraments this year if those in Mass can’t possibly tolerate that his ears hurt from an organ that’s too loud so he covers them. It’s not a matter of disrespect - it sincerely hurts his ears and gives him migraines.

A little tolerance from ALL goes a LONG way. We solved our problem with hearing and some minor wiggling by having him hang out in the choir loft with me. No one but the choir sees his “disruptive/rude behavior” and he can still learn and enjoy the Mass. Win, win, win. And the people in the choir think it’s charming that he so wants to be there and celebrate the Mass. Sunday is his favorite day of the week because of Mass - why would I want to take that away from him?

I’ve never suggested you do…thanks for a creative solution.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Two sides to every story— I attend daily mass. I have seen an all out shout fest and screamathon on many occasions. While yes it does affect my concentration, I try to focus more intently on the Mass while mom and dad are trying to handle the “crisis”. I say crisis, because mom and dad will always consider their childs disruption a crisis.

I usually prepare myself for mass-- I read and reflect on the readings and Gospel before I go to mass so I know what they are telling me-makes it easier to get through the louder days.

Remember folks-- just 40 years ago-- no one except bishiops, priests, deacons, and alter Servers even knew what was going on at mass-- the lay person really did not participate much in the Mass

I Just yesterday had to ask a couple of teenagers behind me to stop talking and show a little more respect for the mass-- I was friendly and non threatening and after mass their father came to me and asked if his son was being rude-- I told him that they were caring on a conversation and that I’d asked them to be more respectful of the Mass. They were teens and should have known better. I was not angry at them but was pleased that they were there.

Be patient and thank God moms and dads are bringing their children to the celebration.

Where ever there are two or more gathered in His Name, He is among us.

Consider it Joyful noise

Good job, this was a teachable moment and you did the right thing. I believe this will make dad more alert to this kind of behavior in the future.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[marci]

This is just another example of lack of consideration by parents with their children in public. You see it everywhere; restaurants, grocery stores, clothing stores, etc. When my children were young (at one point I had four under the age of three) they were not allowed to leave their seats in a restaurant, they weren’t allowed out of their stroller in a clothing store, they had to stay in the cart at the grocery store (I used to push two baskets, one to put the kids in and one for the groceries) and they were expected to be quiet, still and reverent during mass. This meant that very little time was actually spent inside the church, but I figured that God was just happy we were there.

Now, I understand that babies cry and toddlers fall off the pew and hurt themselves, but what bothers me are the PARENTS who refuse to do anything to quiet the toys, talking and extended bouts of crying. These parents feel that it is their right to go to mass and bring their children and kids will be kids. That is true. It is their right and duty to go to mass and instruct their children in the faith, BUT it is also the right of myself and my older children to hear the homily and not be continually distracted during mass.

Just a little consideration for others goes a long way in this world. Unfortunately, in this and in many other situations today, consideration seems to be as lacking as manners in general.

Now go ahead, tell me how hateful and mean I am.

 

[zab]

Now go ahead, tell me how hateful and mean I am.

It is you who said it.

 

[JHow]

My suggestion to those bothered by noisy kids: try the 8:00 am Sunday mass.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

This thread is very sad!!

The way I see it there are 2 very different issues here.

Small children (the under 5, not in school yet set), should not be held to the same standards as the rest of us. Yes, parents need to use a little common sense and instill manners into their children, but they will never learn how to behave if they are not exposed to places when they have to behave.

As far as older children (any one who is in school) are concerned, they should not be allowed to “do as they please”. When they do, it is not their fault, it is the fault of the parents. In my experience, too many parents think that they need to be their children’s “friend” and that any attempt to “discipline” children is “stiffeling their creativity.”

I am not disrtrupted by the actions of children. I am disrtupted by the in-action of parents who think that they have “perfect angels” who are “just being kids”. And this, IMHO, is where we need to start. We, a a society, need to start holidng people accountable for their actions, and if needed to teach adults how to be adults. This can/should happen from the pulpit. Priests/deacons need to preach more about personal responsibility, there need to be bulletin articles reminding people of the need and importance of “sacred silence”. We need to get back to the idea that while Mass is a “celebration”, it is a solemn one, and that boisterous, obnoxious behavior, by people who are old enough to know better will not be tolerated.

And just on a personal note, I am more distracted by the older members (and by this I mean the 65+ crowd) of my parish- laughing, talking, reading books/newspapers/magazines at Mass than I ever am by a youngster being fidgety.

 

[zab]

I am not disrtrupted by the actions of children. I am disrtupted by the in-action of parents** who think that they have “perfect angels” who are “just being kids**”.

How is it that you know what they think?

 

[dailey]

It is you who said it.

Oh brother.