Disruptive little ones at Mass

[dailey]

My suggestion to those bothered by noisy kids: try the 8:00 am Sunday mass.

OR…the parents can teach their kids a little respect for Church. Geeze, Its only one hour out of the week, people.

 

[beafedor]

Interesting discussion. We attend 7:30 AM Mass on Sundays with our 18 month daughter and 3 and a half year hard of hearing son. We stay in the “Cry Room” with usually one other family and one elderly couple. Our family wears special Sunday dresses, pants and shoes as part of the Mass being special. We can’t explain much to our (hard of hearing) son but he knows the crucifix, he knows the name Jesus, we discreetly point to the altar during Consecration to show Jesus in the host to our kids. They also know “shush; we pray” with the joining of hands and kneeling as they see us pray and at home.
We always bring a kid’s Bible and they color the church kids bulletin (and yes we are guilty of bringing a few pretzels and a toy car to help keep them quiet).
We make a point to always attend Mass as a family to form a good habit even if we have to take the kids out and discipline them sometimes. After Mass, we go home, change clothes, we eat a special snack and indulge in Sunday activities. But God comes first.
We attend 7:30AM Mass because there is less people, no music, less distractions, a lot of reverence and naturally the kids behave better than at 11AM Mass.

 

[phoooiee]

So what kind of behavior draws this kind of attention? If I know the parents of a child who is disruptive during mass I will say something to them after mass. I never say anything to the parents or to the children during mass with a couple of exceptions.

If the children are high school age or older I’ll say something to them directly. A couple of years ago at Christmas mass I sat behind two boys I would judge to be 16 or 17 years old. They apparently were friends and were attending mass with one of the mothers. They joked, poked each other, laughed, squirmed, nudged etc. throughout the mass. Mom was oblivious but it was ruining mass for me. At the consecration I tapped one of the boys on the shoulder and in a ‘street voice’ asked them to take it outside or shut-up as this was the most holy part of the mass. The two boys, to their credit, were mortified and became extremely quiet and respectful for the remainder of the mass…mom didn’t even look up from her mass book. At the end of mass they all left together.

I’ve done the same on a few other occasions because the kid’s conduct was outrageous, disruptive, disrespectful and unnecessary. If the parents or guardians were with the kids when I said something to them they have never confronted me about it.

So I ask again, what are your kids doing that is so embarrassing? If they are really disruptive what is your opinion about how their conduct impacts their ability to worship?

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

My opinion is that the most important thing is to show love for my children, and for all God’s children. Failure to do this for any reason and in any situation would seriously impact their ability to worship. More importantly than this, it would impact mine.

The issue is NOT whether children’s behavior is appropriate or not. The issue is, when it is not, how do we deal with it? Do we trust God or do we descend into unkindness? Do we focus on our own relationship with God or do we distract our attention from our own shortcomings by focusing on those of others?

It has nothing to do with my children and how they behave. It has to do with how people experience the church. Mass is not a place where we should expect to be judged by our brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t care what anyone did. Mass is not a place where we should expect to be judged.

 

[dailey]

My opinion is that the most important thing is to show love for my children, and for all God’s children. Failure to do this for any reason and in any situation would seriously impact their ability to worship. More importantly than this, it would impact mine.

The issue is NOT whether children’s behavior is appropriate or not. The issue is, when it is not, how do we deal with it? Do we trust God or do we descend into unkindness? Do we focus on our own relationship with God or do we distract our attention from our own shortcomings by focusing on those of others?

It has nothing to do with my children and how they behave. It has to do with how people experience the church. Mass is not a place where we should expect to be judged by our brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t care what anyone did. Mass is not a place where we should expect to be judged.

Huh??

Actually, this does have to do with your children’s behavior. How is teaching your children to be respectful and considerate to those in church “descend into unkindness”? You are not doing your kids any favors by allowing them to behave any which way they choose at church. And then to fall back on, “don’t judge me” is ridiculous.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

How is it that you know what they think?

Sorry, I should have said from my experience!!

I know there are some children who have develpmental issues and other illnesses (autism, etc.), and I know that most parents are really trying to do their best.

I also know from experiences I had while “student teaching” and while being a Faith Formation instructor to 4th graders, that there are some parents (and again, it is a small number) who think that their children should not be made to behave in ways that they (the children) don’t like.

I am thinking in particular of one of my students who could sit and play his X-Box for hours on end, or watch his cartoons without making a sound or fidgeting, but the minute he was in church, he acted like a wild man, and Mom & Dad’s reply was, “oh well, you know boys will be boys.” Sorry, but that is not teaching the child anything!!

 

[Lapey]

I hope you feel better about this. Do you recall the story about Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple. He overturned their tables and chased them from the temple with a strap. Jesus gave us a message in Mark 11:15-17;

The mass is Christ’s sacrifice made present. It is a time for reverence, prayer, giving thanks and alms. This is what children need to be taught and there are plenty of great parents that do so evidenced by the behavior of their children. And then there are the parents who believe that everyone should make allowances for their little darlings who have not been schooled in even simple manners.

I didn’t call you a heathen (your label not mine) and I’ve shown no hypocrisy or inconsistency in my remarks.

It seems I’ve hit a cord. It is typical of liberal Catholics to start tossing invective, sarcasm and mud bombs when they lack argument. I am making a case that parents have an obligation to train their children in proper behavior at mass and that they have a responsibility not to disrupt other people during mass. You argue to the contrary and you argue that I’m being intolerant. You apparently think that it’s OK to turn the nave into a ‘playpen’. Allow me to point out that tolerance does not mean that one must accept bad or immoral behavior as the norm. Sure I’m intolerant of bad parenting, disruptive children, irreverence at mass, immoral behavior etc. etc. as any good Catholic should be. So I consider it my Catholic duty to charitably correct my brother Catholics. The mass is not form of entertainment and people who don’t want to pay attention to the mass shouldn’t disturb those that do.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

So now I am a “liberal Catholic”? You do not know anything about me. You have no Idea who I am or where my beliefs stand in the spectrum of liberal or conservative.

This is just plain stupid! This useless thread needs to be locked before you get more opportunity to show your ignorance.

All of us have stated with out a doubt that there are parents who are lacking skills when it comes to kids, but I do believe you think too much of yourself. So please get off you soap box, soap box of ignorance in this case as you do not know me at all, and go on with life.

I addressed the comments yuo made specifically, and you accuse me of being a “liberal Catholic” becase you dont have a proper responce.

If you care to know who I am please feel free to private message me and we can try to have a mature conversation.

And btw, do you really equate kids in Church to the money changers that Jesus rebuked? If so, I need not have to comment any more.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

A young Mother brings her two very undisciplined children to Mass. I’m sorry to say it, but it isn’t the children, it’s the Mother. She simply allows everything without a word of discipline in the mix.

Mass is only an hour, yet she brings enough finger food for a small picnic. LOUD belching follows, then howling laughter from both children. Hard toys rountinely go flying or banging down the pews. When their movements become restricted, they cry like howler monkeys.

My Mom spanked us from a very early age and we learned the consequences of bad behavior from each other’s paddlings (I have three other sisters).

Have to agree with you there. I see a stunning lack of even attempting to discipline (root word found in ‘disciple’) kids today.

They don’t ALL have ADD or autism. Those who do, God bless them.

We mean the average kid who is literally being spoiled rotten by lax parenting.

 

[phoooiee]

Huh??

Actually, this does have to do with your children’s behavior. How is teaching your children to be respectful and considerate to those in church “descend into unkindness”? You are not doing your kids any favors by allowing them to behave any which way they choose at church. And then to fall back on, “don’t judge me” is ridiculous.

It doesn’t. Paying attention to other people’s shortcomings during church does.

For the record- I think it’s really important to attend to one’s children during church.

 

[JHow]

OR…the parents can teach their kids a little respect for Church. Geeze, Its only one hour out of the week, people.

I should have explained that 8:00 am comment better:

Our parish has a 9:30 am mass which includes a “children’s liturgy of the word”. For better or for worse, that mass time slot is full of kids. It is guaranteed that some kid, somewhere, at some point in that mass will cry. It is not uncommon for parents with small children to leave (sometimes it’s me) and go over to the hall with a little one. But it would be unusual, given the number of famillies and kids that come to not have at least one little one cry. (Parents, please explain to the 1-1/2 y.o. that being hungry is no reason to cry - after all, it’s brought food a hundred times before!)

8:00 am mass is almost entirely, let’s call them, more “mature” parishioners. It’s much calmer - also the music’s better (whoops! did I say that?).

I suppose other parishes have something similar? Anyway, you can, in my parish at least, select a mass that has a lower incidence of child particpation.

As to what I find distracting, if I could just get the old hippies to stop trying to clap hands in time with the music…

 

[zab]

Sorry, I should have said from my experience!!

I know there are some children who have develpmental issues and other illnesses (autism, etc.), and I know that most parents are really trying to do their best.

I also know from experiences I had while “student teaching” and while being a Faith Formation instructor to 4th graders, that there are some parents (and again, it is a small number) who think that their children should not be made to behave in ways that they (the children) don’t like.

I am thinking in particular of one of my students who could sit and play his X-Box for hours on end, or watch his cartoons without making a sound or fidgeting, but the minute he was in church, he acted like a wild man, and Mom & Dad’s reply was, “oh well, you know boys will be boys.” Sorry, but that is not teaching the child anything!!

Well it’s “nice” that you have a particular family in mind for your judgements, but I just think that it would be better if you would give some advice on what a parent could do without stating what others think and coming across in a condescending tone.

 

[dailey]

It doesn’t. Paying attention to other people’s shortcomings during church does.

For the record- I think it’s really important to attend to one’s children during church.

How in the world did we get to the point where we are talking about people’s shortcomings??

Geeze, I just want to go to mass and not have little kids making noise the whole hour. Stop making excuses for bad behavior from the kids…and parents. I ain’t buying it…

 

[zab]

How in the world did we get to the point where we are talking about people’s shortcomings??

Geeze, I just want to go to mass and not have little kids making noise the whole hour. Stop making excuses for bad behavior from the kids…and parents. I ain’t buying it…

I guess we all have to put up with a little whining sometime.

 

[dailey]

I guess we all have to put up with a little whining sometime.

Yeah well, if you consider it “whining” because I want to be able to go to mass to worship and not listen to kids being disruptive (and parents allowing it), then so be it.

 

[phoooiee]

How in the world did we get to the point where we are talking about people’s shortcomings??

Geeze, I just want to go to mass and not have little kids making noise the whole hour. Stop making excuses for bad behavior from the kids…and parents. I ain’t buying it…

We all want things that are not possible. Sometimes the things that are in our own best interest are not in the best interest of the group. Please, to all, don’t criticize others. No one is perfect. Kids are not perfect and parents are not perfect and we owe it to ourselves and our fellow Christians to give others the benefit of the doubt and concentrate on our own personal relationship with God rather than focusing on how others should be better than they are. If our reverence cannot endure the small distraction caused by one of God’s most innocent creatures, what kind of reverence do we have?

I am a pretty new revert and I can’t tell you how many times this kind of attitude almost drove me away from the church. It was very hard for me feeling like I had to adhere to a set of unwritten rules that I didn’t understand. Some people used to glare at me for my kids’ behavior and it really hurt. I am pretty much past it now (especially with the reassurance I have gotten from every priest I have talked to) but it really bothers me to think of anyone with children reading this thread and how it might affect them.

I am so, so grateful for the people who, at Mass, praised me for having the patience to take my kids to church on the days that they screamed, and tried to escape the pews, and threw their sippy cups, etc. etc.

 

[dailey]

We all want things that are not possible. Sometimes the things that are in our own best interest are not in the best interest of the group. Please, to all, don’t criticize others. No one is perfect. Kids are not perfect and parents are not perfect and we owe it to ourselves and our fellow Christians to give others the benefit of the doubt and concentrate on our own personal relationship with God rather than focusing on how others should be better than they are. If our reverence cannot endure the small distraction caused by one of God’s most innocent creatures, what kind of reverence do we have?

I am a pretty new revert and I can’t tell you how many times this kind of attitude almost drove me away from the church. It was very hard for me feeling like I had to adhere to a set of unwritten rules that I didn’t understand. Some people used to glare at me for my kids’ behavior and it really hurt. I am pretty much past it now (especially with the reassurance I have gotten from every priest I have talked to) but it really bothers me to think of anyone with children reading this thread and how it might affect them.

I am so, so grateful for the people who, at Mass, praised me for having the patience to take my kids to church on the days that they screamed, and tried to escape the pews, and threw their sippy cups, etc. etc.

I understand where you are coming from. I have 3 small children so I understand about them getting bored easily. My 7 yo goes to the bathroom at least once during mass because she gets ansy and just needs to get up to take a break. This thread obviously touched a nerve with a lot of people. I realize that no one is perfect, but at the same time, I think we need to be careful to not let bad behavior slide and simply shrug it off as “no one is perfect”. Being a parent is difficult, I know, but we do have a responsibility as Catholics to teach our kids to respect God’s house.

 

[phoooiee]

I understand where you are coming from. I have 3 small children so I understand about them getting bored easily. My 7 yo goes to the bathroom at least once during mass because she gets ansy and just needs to get up to take a break. This thread obviously touched a nerve with a lot of people. I realize that no one is perfect, but at the same time, I think we need to be careful to not let bad behavior slide and simply shrug it off as “no one is perfect”. Being a parent is difficult, I know, but we do have a responsibility as Catholics to teach our kids to respect God’s house.

Of course we do!

I think the best way to do that is to show love and charity to any parent who is struggling, whether they appear to know it or not. I have never known it to fail- the more love and respect people get, the better they become- and the opposite is also true. We don’t have to agree that someone’s poor choices are correct, but at the same time, we have to have the humility not to judge others, since we may not even know that person’s situation or intent.

People see the error of their ways only when they see true goodness in contrast. When a person is treated charitably, they will learn in turn to be charitable.

 

[zab]

I understand where you are coming from. I have 3 small children so I understand about them getting bored easily.** My 7 yo goes to the bathroom at least once during mass because she gets ansy and just needs to get up to take a break.** This thread obviously touched a nerve with a lot of people. I realize that no one is perfect, but at the same time, I think we need to be careful to not let bad behavior slide and simply shrug it off as “no one is perfect”. Being a parent is difficult, I know, but we do have a responsibility as Catholics to teach our kids to respect God’s house.

What?!!! You allow your 7 year old daughter to get up and walk around during Mass with the excuse of going to the bathroom because she gets “ansy”? I always taught my children to use the bathroom before they left the house. And at 7 years of age they didn’t need to be getting up to use the bathroom. :dts: How are you any different from those parents that you accuse of allowing their children to misbehave?

 

[faithfully]

What?!!! You allow your 7 year old daughter to get up and walk around during Mass with the excuse of going to the bathroom because she gets “ansy”? I always taught my children to use the bathroom before they left the house. And at 7 years of age they didn’t need to be getting up to use the bathroom. :dts: How are you any different from those parents that you accuse of allowing their children to misbehave?

Are you SERIOUS? Why do you think they have bathrooms at the church. BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED THEM!

I’m sorry, this is getting rediculous. Now there are rules as to when children should go the bathroom. Which is weird. Because, at my last church, our priest made a big deal out of the fact that the bathroom was so far away. And the elderly couldn’t possibly make it to the bathroom and back without missing a large portion of Mass. And she did not say “get up and walk AROUND.” Why assume the little girl doesn’t take a direct route? Who are you to say she doesn’t need a break? Do you KNOW her? Do you KNOW if this child is at her limits? Are you children so lacking in mental capacity they don’t know WHEN they have to go the bathroom? You have to tell them?

I suspect one of the reasons this touches a nerve is because most parents KNOW when their kids are acting out. And I’m suprised that no one realises that in MANY cases this is a child (who may have issues… like mine), OR a child who is trying to control the situation. (also like one of mine. ONE of mine thinks he’ll get out of Mass if he acts up.) Now, if he or either of them get really out of control, then sadly we just leave. I miss communion, and won’t get another chance before the next week. Which is why I’m THRILLED they have Sunday school to USUALLY attend.

However, he will not GET to leave church for acting out when I KNOW he can control it. And really it’s ME that knows what he can control and can’t. And since the majority of my own extended family can’t read him, I KNOW noone else sitting around me can. I sit near the back. I do my best not to interferre with others. But frankly, others don’t take priority with me over my children. If he’s screaming… yeah he’d go. IF he’s a wiggle worm that makes noise… he’s gotta learn to keep it down. Meaning, this doesn’t earn him an exit card “'cause church is BORING!” I’m not going to yank him out of Mass. I’m certainly not going to start yelling at him , I’m not going to spank him, he’s not going to relate church and pain. I WON’T take him or brother out for cocoa or a smoothie afterward. Or any other treat. Special trips that were planned before Mass. But YOU won’t see that. Nor are you entitled to see his punishment. My child doesn’t need to associate humiliation with church either.
So, I wouldn’t assume that all ill behaved children aren’t dealt with in one fashion or another. If they have developmental issues, I guarantee that MOST of you don’t have a clue how to handle them. Even those of you that teach. Seriously, unless you’re educated in by way of having a child with these problems, or you are some sort of OT… your OPINION is not professional, and holds ZERO water for those of us that cope. Being a parent of any number of children does NOT qualify you in dealing with children of many problems with various degrees of intensity. Trust me on that one…

 

[zab]

faithfully,
I was being sarcastic.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

We got the EVIL EYE at Church, knowing that if we didn’t immediately stop our shenanigans that we were going to “get it” at home.

Indeed. The destruction of the family unit—of PROPER authority within the family—has gone so far that even the thought of discipline is seen as either too much trouble, or actually abusive, when the opposite is true.