Divorce

[ValPal]

The OP is rejecting the Church’s authority.

I would not be so harsh and jump on the heresy bandwagon. It is very clear that the OP does not understand the concepts behind the Church’s authority. It is also clear that the OP does not understand the Catholic concept of marriage either. The point that the OP entered the marriage believing that marriage is conditional must be emphasized in any new proceeding.

 

[PRmerger]

I seem to remember that asking forgiveness in confession did mean that ALL your sins were forgiven, this obviously doesnt apply to someone who is divorced.

If he confesses, and doesn’t commit another mortal sin (like adultery), then OF COURSE he as a Catholic is welcome to receive the Eucharist.

 

[rainbow1]

You are right, I have thought this through and through and when there was no support I would open the catechism and reread what it has to say, it reassured me that what we have is not right. But it might get that way, but we as a culture have decided that people over rule God and that is twisted into our own image. I am Catholic and need to follow those rules.

Even before hand, the Holy Spirit in a still small voice asked me “who is going to do the annulment?” When I did not even know what one was until then. So it wasn’t right from the start. Even if I wanted it to be. I still do not know the outcome. It does rely on what the tribunal says.

thanks for the understanding you CAN give. I haven’t said it won’t be a sacrament eventually, but the jury is literally out (on more than one level).

That is so heartbreaking…I will so pray for you and I know your example of struggling to please God is such an example of a different kind of love for your spouse…our Good Lord will see you through the whole thing…

 

[Luvtosew]

So if he confesses and doesn’t have relations with his new wife he can receive the host?
or does he have to physically move out and live single?

 

[rainbow1]

If he confesses, and doesn’t commit another mortal sin (like adultery), then OF COURSE he as a Catholic is welcome to receive the Eucharist.

We are in the process of a group hug…

 

[rainbow1]

So if he confesses and doesn’t have relations with his new wife he can receive the host?
or does he have to physically move out and live single?

He needs to talk to a priest…they will have to talk at length to determine what is best…

 

[styrgwillidar]

This third time, I find out when she announces she is leaving us and she has now been gone for over 15 months.

She hasn’t filed for divorce. I haven’t filed either and remain uncertain as to what I should do, because your situation is exactly what I fear.

TryingToLearn,
Go to a lawyer and seriously consider a divorce in order to protect your children. It’s time. What will you do if she comes back with a new partner and insists on joint custody? Are you comfortable throwing your children into that situation? Pedophile’s do target single moms, she could run into one who wants to ‘help her re-establish her relationship with her kids.’ I believe you should seriously investigate making your current situation the legal situation. You can always take her back, you can always get remarried. But your kids are vulnerable to her whims right now.

Just my .02 based on being in a somewhat similar situation.

And now, back to the group hug…

 

[rainbow1]

muffindell, I can sympathize with you.

I am currently married, but separated. My wife moved out leaving me and the kids after her third extramarital affair in a 15 year marriage. I was hurt the first time, found God’s grace to forgive her, take her back and trust her again. I was hurt worse the second time, again turned to my priest who painted the picture that there is no certainty in divorce and filing for anulment. This third time, I find out when she announces she is leaving us and she has now been gone for over 15 months.

She hasn’t filed for divorce. I haven’t filed either and remain uncertain as to what I should do, because your situation is exactly what I fear. It seems to me that her actions demonstrate she never really took the vows seriously, vows which I did and still take quite seriously, but there is no way of knowing so until she makes the decision to divorce or God leads me to that decision, I remain married but separated.

Each day I remain faithful to my vows, I forgive her each day. I pray for her each day. Each day I pray that I might know if this marriage is valid so that I should resign myself to remaining in this state pending her returning to His path for her or if it was never valid so I should clear the way so I can continue looking for the path He has for me. Still no answers, so I continue quietly suffering.

I’m bothered by the people posting berating you for being unable to perfectly follow God’s law. We’re all sinners We all fall We all struggle. And the lack of charity in understanding the pain and hurt and agony of being devoted to a spouse only to have them abandon you and to leave you feeling trapped, that lack of sympathy troubles me. Are these same people in my parish, looking at me and judging me because my spouse couldn’t be faithful? I know many don’t understand my pain from personal experience, but they offer their prayers, their sympathy, their understanding not just for me, but for my wife whom they all know. They don’t judge her and berate her. They pray for her. They talk to her with the love of a faithful servant of God hoping in their love and charity they can help her find her way back to the path He has for her.

St. Paul completely understood his own inability to do what he knew was right. He completely understood that the call to celibacy was too much for some to handle and pointed them towards marriage. And to follow your vocational call, have who you believed to be your spouse for life reject you, leave you painted into a corner with no exit? It’s agonizing. It’s painful. It’s difficult. I feel the pain daily.

I’ve lost track of the number of times I have taken up my rosary and meditated on the sorrowful mysteries to remind myself that He knows suffering as real and undeserved as mine and yours.

I can certainly understand how you would get where you are. St. Paul understood the struggles and pain. And Christ really understands our pain and suffering in ways we can’t even imagine.

I don’t have any advice for you in your situation. All I can offer is my prayers and my sympathy. Sympathy from a fellow soul that has been devastated by the infidelity of a spouse they deeply care(d) for and love(d).

You are a better man than I am a woman…you are quietly suffering, and I am loudly wailing!!! You are not alone. My ex left 4 1/2 years ago…I go to church, pray, go to church, pray…wonder, pray some more, wonder some more…I have some issues with sharing the details of my personal marriage with the Tribunal…pray about that, pray more, go to church more…on and on…I was married 27 years by the time the divorce went through. Lots of stuff to make me believe in my mind it wasn’t valid…but then how many marriages are? This stuff is really really hard. I am middle aged, so I know time (at least earthly time) is of the essence. I always end up going back though to the fact that God is forgiving and merciful to the extreme. I actually prayed one day very bluntly to God and asked him even if I have messed up so badly in marriage would he forgive me and give me a second chance in a new relationship. Shortly thereafter on the way home from mass I saw a road sign with huge letters that said, “This is your first chance at a second chance”…I figure that this is just how Good our God is!!!

 

[rainbow1]

TryingToLearn,
Go to a lawyer and seriously consider a divorce in order to protect your children. It’s time. What will you do if she comes back with a new partner and insists on joint custody? Are you comfortable throwing your children into that situation? Pedophile’s do target single moms, she could run into one who wants to ‘help her re-establish her relationship with her kids.’ I believe you should seriously investigate making your current situation the legal situation. You can always take her back, you can always get remarried. But your kids are vulnerable to her whims right now.

Just my .02 based on being in a somewhat similar situation.

And now, back to the group hug…

Aww…glad you are in on the hug too…

 

[Winter_Warlock]

Just want to say again that I understand what the OP is going through, and that he has my prayers. And even more so for TryingToLearn, that is truly heartbreaking, I will pray that God grants you strength and shows you the path you should take. As one poster here maybe more have stated, you should talk to your Priest he may be able to guide you in the right direction.

I know that everyone here only means you well, but none of them – from what I can tell – is a Priest, and no matter how long they have been posting or how well they think they know the Bible or Gods will you should still talk to a Priest.

You also need to think of your children, what type of example is she setting for them. In my opinion she is not they type of woman to every be exposed to children, teaching them that being selfish and rejecting God is acceptable and that if you marry someone full of faith that you can treat them as if they are nothing and they will take it, and you can keep doing it. I would change the locks and the phone number and never let her back. That may sound unchristian and I am sorry for it, but a bad person should not be allowed to destroy the life of a good person, or his children.

Winter

 

[horselvr]

If her name is on the mortgage it is considered her home too even if she left. I think I’d talk with an attorney before changing any locks.

 

[ChiRho]

Rascalking,

If you are still reading this thread, why can’t anyone have a serious discussion with you? 1ke and you were debating the issue, and she was bringing up valid arguments, and you responded with “we should kick his puppies” and many other comments that did nothing to further the discussion. Of course you meant so “in jest”, but why should we be joking about an issue as serious as this, and why can’t you provide actual arguments in favor of your position instead of presenting outrageous caricatures of the arguments you disagree with?

 

[TryingToLearn]

I’ve talked with a couple very good lawyers that came highly recommended by a priest I have great trust in. I’m comfortable that my kids are more than adequately protected and that should she make any move I’ve got abandonment grounds and more to keep my kids safe. I’m also comfortable with what I have in place to make sure that should she decide to reconcile it will be on sound, safe footings.

The example she is setting for the kids has troubled me at times. But through prayer, consulting with a couple great priests and counselors I’ve recognized that the lock her out, telling her there’s no way I’d take her back, etc. is not the path of charity, forgiveness and humility that God wants me on right now. That may be the path He sets me on later, but it’s absolutely clear to me that right now this is what He wants. My kids see that I’m strong, that I’m strong because of my faith in God, and they see that I am not letting her take advantage of me or harm any of us beyond the pain we suffer in her abandoning us. I see this is what God wants for me right now, not everyone in similar situations to me does He ask to walk the same path. But, it’s where He wants me…

And trust me, I’ve not just prayed on this. I’ve repeatedly sought advice from trusted attorneys, counselors and priests. I’ve definitely not been foolish or blind to the potential risk to my kids, taking care of them is my #1 priority… well, doing God’s will is my #1 priority but I know that taking care of them right now is what He wants me to be my top priority

I realize I can divorce her and still be able to take her back if things change, but to this point my discernment tells me that He just wants me to wait and let her make that choice. I suffer, but that suffering won’t change without an annulment and finding another that would permanently close the door to her. But that seems likely to introduce additional suffering for my kids, that seems to be telling her the exact opposite of what God is asking me to tell her, and that seems to be giving her the easy out. And my suffering may not even end with that, if it’s contrary to the path God wants me to walk…

I hate my Cross, but it’s mine, and I’ll join it with His, walk with Him, offer it up for my wife and kids, take care of my kids, and pray…

But I truly appreciate the concern and any and all prayers for my kids and my wife (and if you’ve got some left for me too, great!)

 

[faithfully]

What you cannot do is re-marry, unless your marriage is declared invalid by the tribunal. It is like being a permanent widow or widower. Well, you actually CAN re-marry, but then you are no longer eligible for the Eucharist. You can attend Mass even then, but you should not receive the Eucharist.

Hey Real… more info here. I thought if your spouse dies the marriage is over. You can remarry within the church and move forward and RECEIVE…

Now this is what the original poster said, he was divorced (on advice from his Priest at teh time) , met his second wife, tried to get an annullment , paid and was turned down dispite his ex wife being quilty, so he got married in another church, so why turn down the annullment that he applied for before he got remarried , now taking everthing he told us was true??

An annullment is a word used to mean the marriage was NEVER valid. It was either valid or it wasn’t. It’s not a choice.

Married 6 years, 4 kids. Wife now says, no more children, get a vasectomy. I say no, I cannot do that, we should try NFP or abstaining. Wife says no, that’s not good enough, if I get pregnant, I get abortion. If you don’t get vasectomy and don’t have sex, I leave and divorce.

I wonder if you’ve wondered why your wife thinks YOU should commit the sin. But not she? She’s willing to murder a baby. But she’s not willing to have her tubes tied? Not that this is a valid Catholic option. But when you read around, you will learn that if SHE committs the sin, it’s not yours. A very difficult situation to say the least. Warranting more than a paragraph.

** I hope that he and his current spouse will one day find their way back to the True Church and do whatever is necessary to be in good standing because I think that is the way to TRUE happiness and TRUE happiness is what I wish for them and for all people, **How? He already tried before he got remarried and he was given the boot. What else can he do?

The story of the prodigals son should be helpful here.

…
It’s interesting to note that you get married in front of god and no one can undo that, yet canon law can find a way to see it unvalid; in effect they must have a direct line to God.

Well, for example, there may be reasons it was infact invalid. Since God doesn’t come roaring through your ceremony to make announcements, we have to rely on the humans to get through the red tape. If your wife NEVER had any intentions of being faithful, but lied and said she did, for example, then perhaps your marriage was not valid. If your wife was underage (as a made up example), and you presented fake ID in order to get married. The marriage was not legal/valid IN THE FIRST PLACE. No one can UNDO a VALID marriage. But people can investigate the truth to determine if there were situations not obvious at the time that prevented it from being valid in the first place.

Do people not get a second chance in life?

By the Grace of God we are granted many, many chances. But we HAVE to be truly sorry for what we have done. Have you ever read the testiment of Gloria Polo? You might find it interesting???

I seem to remember that asking forgiveness in confession did mean that ALL your sins were forgiven, this obviously doesnt apply to someone who is divorced.

You are right. You have to truly be sorry. However, it’s not permission to continue with the same sin. Edited to add: meaning, if you have a civil divorce, but your marriage is found to be valid (and perhaps the civil divorce is necessary for your safety either), you are not in the right remarrying. You are committing a sin. It’s not the divorce that is the problem. It’s living in sin with a person you’re not married to, without fixing the situation.

He obviously does have a love for the Eucharist, or he wouldn’t have posted here. That is a very good starting point, in my opinion.

What’s interesting of note here. He does not believe that man has the authority to say what’s right and wrong here, or to properly translate rules. How could these same men have any profound effect on a pc. of bread? If ONLY Catholic priests are capable of turning bread into Jesus. Why not venture to guess they may also know a thing or two about what is right or wrong?

OP… Sadly, the fact is, you moved forward into a marriage without confirming your first marriage was not valid. And at the moment, it stands that it is valid. Which means you are married to one woman, and living with another. I’m sure you recognize the sin here. If I were you, I’d be appealing this decision as others have suggested. Get yourself educated, and prove that it was invalid. Not that your ex is a cheat. That is clear. But no where in our marriage vows does it say, this marriage will be invalid if you break a commandment. You just might not make it to Heaven. Two different things.

If the Eucharist presented by the Catholic Church is meaningful to you. Then you must agree that ALL the rules are meaningful. As nice as it would be, we don’t get to pick and choose.

Is it fair? No this stinks. We all have a cross to bear. Some seemingly harder than others. I’m quite sure it would take you no more than 1 minute to find a situation that you could not, would not choose to bare in lieu of this one.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I’ve talked with a couple very good lawyers that came highly recommended by a priest I have great trust in. I’m comfortable that my kids are more than adequately protected and that should she make any move I’ve got abandonment grounds and more to keep my kids safe. I’m also comfortable with what I have in place to make sure that should she decide to reconcile it will be on sound, safe footings.

The example she is setting for the kids has troubled me at times. But through prayer, consulting with a couple great priests and counselors I’ve recognized that the lock her out, telling her there’s no way I’d take her back, etc. is not the path of charity, forgiveness and humility that God wants me on right now. That may be the path He sets me on later, but it’s absolutely clear to me that right now this is what He wants. My kids see that I’m strong, that I’m strong because of my faith in God, and they see that I am not letting her take advantage of me or harm any of us beyond the pain we suffer in her abandoning us. I see this is what God wants for me right now, not everyone in similar situations to me does He ask to walk the same path. But, it’s where He wants me…

And trust me, I’ve not just prayed on this. I’ve repeatedly sought advice from trusted attorneys, counselors and priests. I’ve definitely not been foolish or blind to the potential risk to my kids, taking care of them is my #1 priority… well, doing God’s will is my #1 priority but I know that taking care of them right now is what He wants me to be my top priority

I realize I can divorce her and still be able to take her back if things change, but to this point my discernment tells me that He just wants me to wait and let her make that choice. I suffer, but that suffering won’t change without an annulment and finding another that would permanently close the door to her. But that seems likely to introduce additional suffering for my kids, that seems to be telling her the exact opposite of what God is asking me to tell her, and that seems to be giving her the easy out. And my suffering may not even end with that, if it’s contrary to the path God wants me to walk…

I hate my Cross, but it’s mine, and I’ll join it with His, walk with Him, offer it up for my wife and kids, take care of my kids, and pray…

But I truly appreciate the concern and any and all prayers for my kids and my wife (and if you’ve got some left for me too, great!)

May God bless you for your faith and patience. I will add you to my prayers.

:console:

 

[faithfully]

May God bless you for your faith and patience. I will add you to my prayers.

:console:

Seriously? I’m just at the point where my prayers finish with… and please take care of everyone at CAF… You know why. I’d be there all night!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Seriously? I’m just at the point where my prayers finish with… and please take care of everyone at CAF… You know why. I’d be there all night!

I have my special intentions for some people, and I do that before I say the general ones. I’m “taking care” of just a few people who have touched my heart. This poster is one of them. I also told an online friend I’d pray for his wife, who is taking chemotherapy and having a lot of side effects. This could be a full time job.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Mufindell you may want to check out this support group. You and your wife or just you would be welcome. The only people you will find there are people that are there are people who are going through it or have been through it - God bless.

 

[faithfully]

I have my special intentions for some people, and I do that before I say the general ones. I’m “taking care” of just a few people who have touched my heart. This poster is one of them. I also told an online friend I’d pray for his wife, who is taking chemotherapy and having a lot of side effects. This could be a full time job.

LOL! Don’t blush… I’m just feelin’ ya! Not making fun of or critizing… I feel so bad for so many. And wow… I know we could ALL use a little extra… Def. could be a full time job!

 

[PRmerger]

but not to allow a repenting Catholic forgiveness, is beyond me.

This is a most curious post.

If a man is in a second “marriage” and is a “repenting Catholic”, then he ought not be committing adultery. That would mean he’s repentant. And OF COURSE he can receive the Eucharist.

If he’s still engaging in illicit “marital” relations, then it’s clear he’s not repentant, and ought not receive the Eucharist.