Divorcing

[Eliza10]

Eliza10, you bring up an important point about how we Catholics view ourselves when divorced. I have to say, I am ashamed of it. I am heading for a second divorce and you can bet that many people will look at me as deficient or that there’s something definately wrong with me. But that’s my pride talking. It shouldn’t matter, but it does. .

I know. My pride still rears up about this. One thing I struggle with is being Miss which sounds silly, (and anyway its combined with my married name - so it sounds like a demotion) or Ms., which I have never liked. So i use Mrs. sometimes, professionally, just to avoid my discomfort, as I figure my marital staus is not their business anyway. I use all three (Ms., Miss, Mrs.)! I interchange depending on my mood at the moment. Always with a hesitation.

I am going to have to stop this siliness at some point. It certainly is a reflection of my non-acceptance.

God knows that I have tried as hard as I could to keep my marriage together. There is nothing more I can do. Unless there is a miracle, we have absolutely no hope…

I do believe you! And I also know that some don’t understand, and will judge, and think that divorce attached to you means you lack commitment, fortitude, honesty, or some other basic charater trait which they feel they themselves posses, which results in their not ever being in your position.

But these who think this way are not realizing how much of what they have (stability in marraige) is because of grace not merit. So we need to pray for them.

But God has given me peace in all this ugliness and I know that I just need to follow Him.

I believe you! And you know the peace is from God because its a peace that passes all understanding.

I agree with you when you talk about praying for exH, maybe they would never have had a chance of salvation if we didn’t pray for them.

Yes, maybe that is why they got put in our lives. God knew that as we were pushed to the brink and had to choose between hate and bitterness and prayer for their souls, we might choose the latter.

 

[Eliza10]

Yes, the transition I’ve had is more finally recognizing that what I was feeling was “lonely” after the chaos settled out enough to do anything other than just keep moving and then being able to detach from that.

I did need to grieve the relationship, but could not until late last year when the combination of the fiscal insulation from finilizing the civil process and the emotional relief of my ex finally stabilizing enough to quit trying to take her rage out on me through the kids actually allowed me enough time and energy to finally mull over the implications (both past and future) of what was happening…

It takes a lot of mulling over I think.

And its hard to go through the whole process while at the same time the ex-spouse is concentrating rage on you.

I had to learn that which I wished I could avoid learning (and at such a diffuclt time) and that was learning to respond appropriately to rage and aggression aimed at me. To be able to see clearly in spite of it.

I had to admit to myself that it was over, that no matter how much of my blood and tears that I poured into the relationship that it never had a chance because my ex never wanted a healthy marital relationship and had been trying to keep it wounded but limping along the whole time to try to hide just how bad her own mental state was and how much she’d misled me about in order to convince me she was ready to be married to me…

I suppose these things will clarify for me more when I start the annullment process. I have learned a lot just learning about annullment. But just from understanding the psychology of my ex’s seemingly normal conditon (Narcissim), I was able to gain understanding that he, too, was putting all his effort into trying to maintain a wounded, not healthy, relationship. And fear was driving him, making his efforts more desparately driven than mine.

Perhaps fear, too, was driving your wife, and that is easier to forgive.

I think that the case of one sopuse not even wanting a healthy marital relationship is not all that uncommon. I think its often the case when one has grown up in a disfunctional way and views that as the normal way to be. [It doesn’t manifest itself like this if the person who grew up disfunctionally was conscious that it was wrong and therefore endeavors for something different]. He or she then works hard to create the normalcy to which he/she has become attached. They are only comfortable in a state of disfunction, and panic, and work to create it, when the state is threatened.

… and suddenly our interactions were much less complicated leading in turn to me having just a bit moretime and energy to direct towards spiritual work… .

Anything that reduces the strifeful interactions and therefore brings peace is ground for spiritual work. Because without peace in your heart, there is not really room for God.

 

[cecilia97]

I suppose these things will clarify for me more when I start the annullment process. I have learned a lot just learning about annullment. But just from understanding the psychology of my ex’s seemingly normal conditon (Narcissim), I was able to gain understanding that he, too, was putting all his effort into trying to maintain a wounded, not healthy, relationship. And fear was driving him, making his efforts more desparately driven than mine.

Perhaps fear, too, was driving your wife, and that is easier to forgive.

I think that the case of one sopuse not even wanting a healthy marital relationship is not all that uncommon. I think its often the case when one has grown up in a disfunctional way and views that as the normal way to be. [It doesn’t manifest itself like this if the person who grew up disfunctionally was conscious that it was wrong and therefore endeavors for something different]. He or she then works hard to create the normalcy to which he/she has become attached. They are only comfortable in a state of disfunction, and panic, and work to create it, when the state is threatened.

Eliza,

I just filed my annulment and I have to say the process was VERY enlightening. And I’m surprised at the similarities…my case sponsor read over my papers and said he saw some narcissistic personality in my ex.

But answering all the questions lead me to understand that my ex was working with a damaged concept of marriage and poor tools from his family background. Maybe he really didn’t know how to do it any better. So, in that way, it has helped me start to forgive him. He still made wrong choices, I’m not saying he doesn’t have any fault…but he didn’t know much better.

I’ve heard that if you remarry within a year of a divorce, you have an 85% chance of divorcing again. That’s enough to make me happy being by myself! And if an ex ran out for another relationship, there’s a huge chance of its failure. They need our prayers a lot!

 

[Nordar]

Yes, its agaonizing. And lonely. But lonely can turn eventually to “alone”, I think, if you do not flee from “lonely”. “Alone” is one of the main places you heal, I believe.

And “alone with God” is the most wonderful place to be.

Perhaps its a reality that to get to “alone” you have to persevere through “lonely”. And to get to “alone with God”, you have to get to “alone”.

Maybe.

I want to thank you so very much for sharing, I can so identify with you. My divorce will be final in about a month after 27yrs, truer words were never spoken than the ones above. It was not untill I had persevered through “lonely” and got to “alone with God” to get to alone that I truly began to heal .

 

[shirleytowers]

I never thought I would be divorced. No one in my family was divorced. They are all devout Catholics. My feeling of shame and failure were enormous.

I am getting an annulment, and like another poster above, I learned alot. l feel less shame. I understand bettter. Our Father loves us like a good parent would. What would your loving parent want for you?

 

[Eliza10]

Eliza,
I just filed my annulment and I have to say the process was VERY enlightening. And I’m surprised at the similarities…my case sponsor read over my papers and said he saw some narcissistic personality in my ex.

Well it will be a relief to me if the sponsor knows about narcissim. Because it explains about everything, and its easy to think that the image they project (and tailor to each new situation) is actually a reality. A lot of people do not understand the completely different reality a narcissist lives in and creates and manipulates you to beleive, and they just don’t get it.

I learned that psychologists say goodbye to narcissists when they uncover that this is what they are working with, because you cannot get anywhere with them. They are insincere and manipulative, and do not want to be fixed.

I understand that one of the first signs a knowledgable counselor has that he is working with one is when the husband and wife have two completely different stories about is going on.

Unfortunately, *all *of the counselors we worked with as a couple, when i was at the end of my rope and demanded counseling for us, did not know about Narcissism. I understnad this is not unusual, either.

Our counselors got two completely different stories, but they never assumed that it was because one was making things up. They assumed we both manipulated our stories to make ourselves look good. So at home I had the typical experience of a Narcissist’s partner- having your relaity re-written for you constantly ("You said [fill in the blank - his made-up version of reality]… ", “You think [etc.]…”, for example), and then I had the counselors telling me the same thing. I was constantly accused of being insincere, so I began to wonder if in spite of my efforts to be perfectly sincere, I in fact wasn’t. It was confusing! And so I* looked* confused, as well as willing to work on myself, and he looked confident, and not needing any work excpet for me to improve, so the counselors took his lead. And so it went, until his sin got me out of the thick of things and I got a better view.

So I have the annulment papers here which I haven’t started. I feel a reluctance to begin. I think I need to talk to a good, thoughtful, holy priest about annulments, divorce and remarraige. I want to do what God wants. I am afraid to even entertain thoughts about what I want. I know I did what I wanted before. But look how it turned out. Awful. It seemed to be God’s will, but apparently I wasn’t listening very well.

But answering all the questions led me to understand that my ex was working with a damaged concept of marriage and poor tools from his family background. Maybe he really didn’t know how to do it any better. So, in that way, it has helped me start to forgive him. He still made wrong choices, I’m not saying he doesn’t have any fault…but he didn’t know much better.

It helps to realize that. I had a lot of years to gain insights on where his behaviors were coming from. OCOA, tuned-out Mom with her own crisises to manage and lot of kids, invalidation as a routine style of parenting, boys who got less mothering than the girls and hardly a trace of father figure, an abusive teacher at a vulnerable age with no one to come to his defense. These things all explained things. But nothing explained everything like understanding Narcissism. That also explained why he would never examine himself or his actions. Narcissists don’t ever do that. Primarily because its too frightening for them to face the deep abyss inside, and anyway they feel they get along fine in the world (and seem to) so why should they.

(continued on next post)

 

[Eliza10]

I’ve heard that if you remarry within a year of a divorce, you have an 85% chance of divorcing again. That’s enough to make me happy being by myself!

Yes, and thats good common sense, without even the stats to back it up! Rebound relations don’t work. It takes good time to get over a marriage. If you don’t get over it, you bring the problems into the next relationship. If you are fleeing to a new relationship to flee loneliness, you are bringing it neediness, and not wholeness. A broken self, not a whole. Thats not a good beginning, although mutual neediness is a powerufl distraction from work on your self. And if the relationship has a bad start, how can it go the distance?

And if an ex ran out for another relationship, there’s a huge chance of its failure. They need our prayers a lot!

Yes, well, mine did. And so did the married woman he hooked up with. I expect it to fail, but I am not holding my breath waiting for it. There is likely a strong will to prove they are right, since what they did was so upsetting to their circles, so uncalled for, and so socially unacceptable. Staying together proves they really “have” something that it excuses all that. And hope may be strong, and you can go far on that. (I went years on hope alone!). Also the divorce was financially devasting and a second break would be even more so. Staying together is holds together whats left - its by far the best thing financially for them. Meanwhile, there are benefits to me in their choice to be together.

At the time of the discovery, I knew exactly how she had been misled, and I felt sorry for her, for waht she was giving up and what she unknowingly was getting. And I wanted to write her, because it seemed the right thing to do, to tell her what she should know. But I realized, right thing or not, she didn’t want to know it, and wouldn’t want to believe me, she wanted to beleive only the stories my husband had told her, which justified her. So it would be like throwing pearls to swine. She’d only trample on the offering. So, althought the circumstance are humiliating in a respect, I focus on what good the circumstances have done and are doing me. A very holy priest said to me: “She did you a favor”.

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[Eliza10]

I never thought I would be divorced. No one in my family was divorced. They are all devout Catholics. My feeling of shame and failure were enormous.

I am getting an annulment, and like another poster above, I learned alot. l feel less shame. I understand bettter. Our Father loves us like a good parent would. What would your loving parent want for you?

Wow, no one divorced? You know,that doesn’t mean that someone in your history wasn’t suffering for having to stay in an intolerable or abusive situation. A lot of times opast gerenrations would stay together just because the price you paid in going against society’s expectations was too high. Now it seems one has to fight society to *stay *together! If in fact there were difficult marraiges in your family history, you can be at least proud of their fortitude.

My paternal grandparents were divorced, when it was not such a common thing to happen. With much family history available on that side of the family, it does seem that it was unusual, on both sides of that family, for that to happen.

This grandmother’s parents, my great-grandparents, never divorced, but I can see that it was a painful union that imitated mine. In their honeymoon picture, their contenances as a couple were exactly those of my husband and me. It was almost spooky to see. Letters, and remembering my grandmothers word’s about her parents, backed up what I “saw” in this picture.

I belieive it was a “familiar spirit”. A demon, this one a demon of unhappy marraiges, verbal abuse, and cooperation with it. There can be other ones - of lust or impurity, or alcoholism, etc.

These familiar spirits take hold in families, because in some generation back, it found an abode, a foothold, where it could wreck havoc. And it sticks with this family, this “familiar” place, through generations. In this way, you see divorce passed down, or alcoholism, or stealing perhaps, or anything sin problem, I guess, passed down from generation to generation within families. That is until someone chases it out in the name of Jesus.

So I did that this summer, on a healing retreat. I prayed out in the name of Jesus as many things from past generations as I could.

I am not a theologian or an expert on these things. It had just heard of this spiritual concept in my past, and it came to my mind strongly, like God was bringing it to mind, and it seemed right to me to pursue it. It seemed something that was calling to be remedied. So searched on the internet to find a place to do it, and went there, and did it. I felt a great freedom and release afterward, and I still do.

_

 

[dulcissima]

These are some really insightful posts Eliza. My soon to be ex-husband is likely a narcisist too - two counselors have offered that opinion, particularly after reading the way he interacts with me on email. I guess it is valuable to have it there in black and white. It’s been enlightening to finally understand this, after 17 years of trying eveything I could to make it all work. I’ve been offered the opinion also that even with counseling there is little hope for him. I’m just thankful that I have finally broken free from the nightmare that is his version of reality.

 

[cecilia97]

So I have the annulment papers here which I haven’t started. I feel a reluctance to begin. I think I need to talk to a good, thoughtful, holy priest about annulments, divorce and remarraige. I want to do what God wants. I am afraid to even entertain thoughts about what I want. I know I did what I wanted before. But look how it turned out. Awful. It seemed to be God’s will, but apparently I wasn’t listening very well.

Please do speak with a priest. My case sponsor is my parish pastor and he’s a very holy priest…his insights helped me a great deal and I’m letting go of a lot of anger now.

I filed for my annulment NOT because I wish to remarry. (not sure if I’ll EVER remarry) I filed so I could tell my story before ex could tell it for me, and to find out where I stand. If it comes back and the marriage is upheld, so be it…at least I’ll know what my future looks like.

The papers are difficult. The fruits of your work are only apparent after you get through the painful reliving of your history with your ex. But I now see the red flags that I ignored because I loved him, and hopefully I won’t ignore things like that again in the future.

The biggest help for me…I took my computer to the adoration chapel and wrote the entire annulment questionnaire in front of the Blessed Sacrament. This made it almost impossible for me to be angry while I was writing, so the anger didn’t come through in the answers as I had feared. I believe the Holy Spirit kept me honest and factual about the whole thing.

 

[Eliza10]

Please do speak with a priest. My case sponsor is my parish pastor and he’s a very holy priest…his insights helped me a great deal and I’m letting go of a lot of anger now.

I filed for my annulment NOT because I wish to remarry. (not sure if I’ll EVER remarry) I filed so I could tell my story before ex could tell it for me, and to find out where I stand. If it comes back and the marriage is upheld, so be it…at least I’ll know what my future looks like.

The papers are difficult. The fruits of your work are only apparent after you get through the painful reliving of your history with your ex. But I now see the red flags that I ignored because I loved him, and hopefully I won’t ignore things like that again in the future.

The biggest help for me…I took my computer to the adoration chapel and wrote the entire annulment questionnaire in front of the Blessed Sacrament. This made it almost impossible for me to be angry while I was writing, so the anger didn’t come through in the answers as I had feared. I believe the Holy Spirit kept me honest and factual about the whole thing.

Thank you for this encouragement and these good suggestions. I think writing them out before the Blessed Sacrament is an excellent suggestion.

 

[cecilia97]

I never thought I would be divorced. No one in my family was divorced. They are all devout Catholics. My feeling of shame and failure were enormous.

I am getting an annulment, and like another poster above, I learned alot. l feel less shame. I understand bettter. Our Father loves us like a good parent would. What would your loving parent want for you?

Hi shirley,

Same for me…my family are strong in their faith and I’m literally the first divorcee. The women in my family live very long lives…I fully expected my husband to die in my arms in the hospital at age 90 or so!

It sort of makes my heart go out to anyone who is judgemental now toward divorced people…it can happen to ANYONE. God wants your marriage to work, and you may want your marriage to work, but if your spouse doesn’t…what are you gonna do?

 

[chandler550369]

so helpful to read all of the posts about divorcing. It is interesting to see the word "narcicist(sp?) pop up so much. My first on line counselor told me my husband was a narcicist and my husband told my father I was a narcicist so who knows. I have been trying to examine myself for this character flaw.

I appreciate your views on working through lonely to alone and to find aloneness with God. I have been working on this. I do miss my husband. I am tending to remember the good times and I just want to hug him some afternoons–even after his walking out on me and my children. My children want nothing to do with him. He has moved out of Kentucky to Boca Raton. I do not know how much to encourage them. They harbor anger against him.

I at least can own up to the fact that I have been served divorce papers and am able to look the terrible travesty of a failed marriage in the face.

 

[chandler550369]

I recall in my life being afraid to be around someone who was experiencing divorce. I felt the pain to be too intense and I was unable to look it in the face. Perhaps I in my psyche knew that I would too walk that path. It has made me less judgmental towards others who walk the path.

 

[dulcissima]

so helpful to read all of the posts about divorcing. It is interesting to see the word "narcicist(sp?) pop up so much. My first on line counselor told me my husband was a narcicist and my husband told my father I was a narcicist so who knows. I have been trying to examine myself for this character flaw.

That’s funny, because I have kind of questioned myself about this too. How do I know that I am not the one with the altered sense of reality? How do I know that I am not projecting myself on him? Luckily I’ve been going to weekly counseling for over 6 months now, so I have someone to go to for some perspective. I think if you are willing to question this, it is probably a pretty good sign that you are not a narcissist ( I looked up the spelling )

Actually, I’ve done the really hard thing that narcissists can’t bear to do, and that is to face some of my deepest problems and flaws. The great thing about divorce is that it does bring all of your problems to the surface, often larger than life. I’ve been finding that I have had to go back and address a lot of problems that I have had with my mom and my stepfather, to actually talk to them when I have a problem with what they are doing or saying, and explain to them how I feel. They are also having to deal with problems from their own childhoods and marriage as a result, so we all seem to be on this journey together and actually are making amazing progress. My counselor tells me that a narcissist can’t do this, that to face that reality for them would be death of self because they have worked so hard to create this alternate view of themselves as being truly exceptional human beings. They would rather tirelessly reconstruct reality than face the death of their view of themselves. I see that now, and it is really pretty sad.

 

[Eliza10]

…God wants your marriage to work, and you may want your marriage to work, but if your spouse doesn’t…what are you gonna do?

Exactly.

 

[Eliza10]

Chandler and Dulcissima, It is common, after living with a Narcissist, to be confused - because he rewrites *your *reality as well as his. You question whether you are him (the Narcisist).

And it is common for them to say you are crazy (mine actually accused me that in court that and we all needed to be evaluated because of his accusation), or they typically say you are what they are. In fact, I discovered, in learning about narcissism, the key to the many confusing accusations of my motives, which seemed to come out of nowhere. They always had me racking my brain to see if any of it might be ture somehow, even a little, in order to make *some *sense of why he would think of this. The key is - they are his motives!

When I realized that, it all made sense. Things like “You are doing that just to bother me.” are things I would never dream of doing, but that “bothering me” was in a sense like food and dirnk to him. But most of the years, I never suspected that.

 

[Eliza10]

Actually, I’ve done the really hard thing that narcissists can’t bear to do, and that is to face some of my deepest problems and flaws. …

Yes, A narcissist cannot do that. So there you go. You are not one.

… I’ve been finding that I have had to go back and address a lot of problems that I have had with my mom and my stepfather, to actually talk to them when I have a problem with what they are doing or saying, and explain to them how I feel. …

Yes, I also have a tendancy to “put up with”, although I have worked on my communication over the years. Always room for more growth there.

My counselor tells me that a narcissist can’t do this, that to face that reality for them would be death of self because they have worked so hard to create this alternate view of themselves as being truly exceptional human beings. They would rather tirelessly reconstruct reality than face the death of their view of themselves…

Wow! Your counselor really does understand narcissists. I never knew there were people like this – but I was living with one! And in such confusion. Understanding this made all the confusing actions make perfect sense. Yes, it is a tireless reconstruction they are engaged in. My husband was truly offended when i would no longer beleive his reconstructions. He constructed a reason for our divorce, practically dictated it to me, and was *enraged *when I didn’t go along with it. He truly felt entitled for me to believe him.

It was, in fact, insanity.

 

[cecilia97]

i just wanted to let everyone out there know who has been praying for me that i have started praying the rosary daily both as a part of a 54-day novena and also as part of the mary undoer of knots novena.
although i say it with hardly any contemplation. it is atleast that i am saying the rosary…
i am thankful for that and i know that the rest will come with time…

That’s good news, mariam!

 

[chandler550369]

On my way to bed for evening but wanted to view posts; the (name removed by moderator)ut on narcicistic (sp?) is very insightful. I believe my husband was told this by someone perhaps in the way he described me. He walked away one night and cut me out of his life. He sent me an e mail the night before I was served papers saying he wished me a wonderful life but that he could not live with me.

Failure!! That note was so controlled and cold. He seems in complete control. Perhaps I was not putting him first enough. In fact, I was not. I have had to take a hard look at who I am. I have been to counselors who find nothing wrong with me but feel I was living with a very sick person, yet I can not forgive myself. I feel they do not know me well enough. My husband told my 16 year old son the night he walked away that I did not fight fair–that women did not fight fair. This was after he had physically dragged our 17 year old daughter off of a piece of furniture and kicked her out of the house. I did not side with him as he was so totally out of control. I told the boys to get in the car and I got in the car with them. I did not get in the car until I sat and talked to my husband for awhile. He was slumped in a chair and desperate. I knew he was sick. He needed help. Our marriage needed help. Yet, he walked away and into the presence of individuals who do not value family.

God has given me strength. I know I am a far from perfect wife and mother. I am learning to not be so ashamed of my loss. It is the hardest journey to walk. I am blessed to be wtih my children this evening. They and I have a family. My husband walked away from our family.

I will remember each of you in my prayers this evening. Please do the same for me.

God blesss