Do all Christians have to become Catholic prior to entering heaven?

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I’M assume all Catholic believe in the trinity. Jesus stated that He

and God are one. But he also says their is only one God.

I thought my previous statement implied what you said about giving

to the Jews so the gentiles could be saved.But he came to save his own first.

My point still stands though. Their were Tradition he did not do.it made them made.Don’t get me Wrong Not all tradition are bad.

Just because. one does not follow all your tradition does not mean they are not Christian.

That’s why i don’t hate the Catholic church but it took me a lot of studying the bible to figure this out.

For example we can eat pork. Traditional Jews don’t eat pork.

I only imagine that if thing turned out differently that Christianity would of ultimately of been Jew/ Christianity.

Hence Jesus has the title king of the Jews.

Further more the first Christianity was Being killed off by the Romans and the Jews Hence Paul used to be Saul and was in on it. Until Christ saved him.

when that happened Saul who is now Paul Converted The Greeks Or Romans but it was a long process i Imagine.​

Out side of the Bible.
Eventually Roam converted to Christianity and Formed the

Roman Catholic Church. and help convert to the world to Christ

I thanked God for it. so i don’t argue to much about these trivial

thing as long as we keep to Jesus.

p.s. I don’t think your church is Heresy
 
wooka64 said:
I’M assume all Catholic believe in the trinity. Jesus stated that He

and God are one. But he also says their is only one God.

I thought my previous statement implied what you said about giving

to the Jews so the gentiles could be saved.But he came to save his own first.

My point still stands though. Their were Tradition he did not do.it made them made.Don’t get me Wrong Not all tradition are bad.

Just because. one does not follow all your tradition does not mean they are not Christian.

That’s why i don’t hate the Catholic church but it took me a lot of studying the bible to figure this out.

For example we can eat pork. Traditional Jews don’t eat pork.

I only imagine that if thing turned out differently that Christianity would of ultimately of been Jew/ Christianity.

Hence Jesus has the title king of the Jews.

Further more the first Christianity was Being killed off by the Romans and the Jews Hence Paul used to be Saul and was in on it. Until Christ saved him.

when that happened Saul who is now Paul Converted The Greeks Or Romans but it was a long process i Imagine.​

Out side of the Bible.
Eventually Roam converted to Christianity and Formed the

Roman Catholic Church. and help convert to the world to Christ

I thanked God for it. so i don’t argue to much about these trivial

thing as long as we keep to Jesus.

p.s. I don’t think your church is Heresy
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thank you for using the Bible which the CC put together and declare the Church of the Bible not a heresy;. i was wonder when an authoritative person in SS would come.
Galatians 1:9, “As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone preach a Gospel to you other than that which you have received, let him be Anathema.”
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wisdomseeker said:
if anyone can enter Heaven without being in the Catholic Church, then why Jesus would find One Church? what is the point of having One Church? and why Jesus point out that at the end many would say Lord, Lord… have i not done this and that in your name? and Jesus says: depart from me i dont know you. arent these people also christians? but yet they are not pleasing to our Lord. Why is that?

Peace to all.
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Most people are not, & have never been, Christians of any description at all. So it’s a bit much to deify, canonise & idolise the ill-informed notions of a bunch of European Churchmen about a world which was vastly larger than they realised. It’s unforgivable to insist that what the Fathers ignorantly said must be treated as Divine Truth From Heaven, when they spoke under the impression that the whole world had been evangelised - it had not.​

The dogma does not fit the facts of geography or of missionary history - so it is arrogant in the extreme to insist that the Americas, Australasia, the Pacific, China & Japan, Scotland, Ireland, Africa, India had been evangelised by 400 AD; but that is what is implied by the words of the Fathers by that time. They were not in a position to comment,because they did not know that the world was rather more populous than their religious ideas allowed for. Augustine can comdemn the idea of Antipodes till he’s blue in the face - whether he liked it or not, there are antipodes, & they are inhabited. But his Bibliolatry & dogmatolatry & ecclesiolatry blinded him (& others like him) to this elementary geographical fact.

The Fathers can go knock themselves out, for on this matter they have nothing worth saying, since they were pig-ignorant about some rather important facts; facts as result of which the dogma is rubbish, nonsense, a fantasy, without truth, in conflict with facts, unworthy of belief, inherently incredible. The only way to rescue it is to say that God, out of his great hatred for mankind, had hiddden the gospel from most of the nations, so that he might damn them for their failure to believe. :rolleyes:

Popes & Councils spoke equally foolishly on related matters: for how can a Polynesian or a Hottentot bow the knee to the Pope, if he has no way of knowing that such a thing as a Pope even exists ? Yet this vile dogma makes him and his fathers before him for many generations damnable, for failing to believe a Gospel, a God, a Pope, & a Church of which they had never so much as heard, nor could have. This is tyranny of the worst kind. :mad:

People’s non-stop playing at God and Judge shows only that they don’t believe that God is fit for the part - otherwise they would never dream of damning almost the entire world in this disgusting fashion. :mad:
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Most people are not, & have never been, Christians of any description at all. So it’s a bit much to deify, canonise & idolise the ill-informed notions of a bunch of European Churchmen about a world which was vastly larger than they realised. It’s unforgivable to insist that what the Fathers ignorantly said must be treated as Divine Truth From Heaven, when they spoke under the impression that the whole world had been evangelised - it had not.​

The dogma does not fit the facts of geography or of missionary history - so it is arrogant in the extreme to insist that the Americas, Australasia, the Pacific, China & Japan, Scotland, Ireland, Africa, India had been evangelised by 400 AD; but that is what is implied by the words of the Fathers by that time. They were not in a position to comment,because they did not know that the world was rather more populous than their religious ideas allowed for. Augustine can comdemn the idea of Antipodes till he’s blue in the face - whether he liked it or not, there are antipodes, & they are inhabited. But his Bibliolatry & dogmatolatry & ecclesiolatry blinded him (& others like him) to this elementary geographical fact.

The Fathers can go knock themselves out, for on this matter they have nothing worth saying, since they were pig-ignorant about some rather important facts; facts as result of which the dogma is rubbish, nonsense, a fantasy, without truth, in conflict with facts, unworthy of belief, inherently incredible. The only way to rescue it is to say that God, out of his great hatred for mankind, had hiddden the gospel from most of the nations, so that he might damn them for their failure to believe. :rolleyes:

Popes & Councils spoke equally foolishly on related matters: for how can a Polynesian or a Hottentot bow the knee to the Pope, if he has no way of knowing that such a thing as a Pope even exists ? Yet this vile dogma makes him and his fathers before him for many generations damnable, for failing to believe a Gospel, a God, a Pope, & a Church of which they had never so much as heard, nor could have. This is tyranny of the worst kind. :mad:

People’s non-stop playing at God and Judge shows only that they don’t believe that God is fit for the part - otherwise they would never dream of damning almost the entire world in this disgusting fashion. :mad:
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Cool down GoG;) . I know you’ve read too many books even those written by St John the Evangelist not published in this world:) .

I believe the CCC is clear on the Church’ position regarding non-Christians on the dogma “Outside the Church there is no salvation”. That is, non-Christians are saved due to invincible ignorance… but then I’m not the guy who can explain how it’s applied.

Now, some 2000 years ago God sent His ONLY begotten Son Jesus, the Christ, to a place called holy land. God had NO other Son beside him to redeem humanity from sin. God sent him in flesh and blood like each one of us. Human. The only way that God could’ve planned for our salvation. Can we question that? No. So, being human as he was, Christ could not have sprung up in multiple locations to accomplish his mission doing precisely the same thing for every human society on the face of the planet. But he definitely knew there are people already living somewhere beyond his horizon (at the time… and history tells us that Christianity started ONLY in Jerusalem - not at different places) - pagans. So what did he do? He established a Church (as we know it) and commissioned them to go and spread the good news of salvation even to the remotest ends of the earth. A Church composed of humans, again, like us. Some saintly… sinnersly, as well. He wanted to evangelize the world using humans. He did not send holy angels to go out there, appear every now and then, to do the work. It would have been a lot easier… faster, too. But no. He sent humans - specifically, Catholics. And we all know what happened in the process. That the task of evangelization was/is never an easy task for humans. (Because humans are corruptible mortals). First, there were persecutions even from their own people… then against kingdoms… then heresies of all sorts… schisms… abuses… rebellions… rejections…protestations, etc… to this day. Conflicts and contradictions that brought miseries, sufferings, and deaths in every one’s camp. Ugly… but maybe glorious, too. For we now see, at this present time, that the same Church is still with us. Still spreading the same good news of salvation and still proposing the same Faith. Still available for you and for me… for everybody. And we can’t deny her goodness, her teachings… doctrines of faith… morals,… spiritual guidance. And we still see that the visible part of it is made up of humans - saintly… and sinnersly😉 . Now, is it more wise to embrace the history of the ugly past, throw away the fruits of civilization, be removed from the reality of the present because of lingering confusions, or grab the oppurtunity of becoming at least a good Catholic Christian and avail of that godly promise?

I know JimmyB was particularly asking about all Christians here becoming Catholics after death… not about pagans. Sorry.
 
BareKnuckler said:
I am no longer a Christian, so the name sounded rather stupid to have.
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Dear BareKnuckler / formerly Christianknight. It is too bad that you no longer consider yourself a Christian…but objectively if you were baptized you are still a Christian from that point on whether or not you currently feel like it. My suggestion is that you claim your baptismal grace and birthright and live like a Christian again. You might be a wayward or struggling Christian and you might even become reprobate and apostate but when you get to heaven you will be judged as a Christian for better or worse. If you are an apostate at that point your responsibility and guilt will only be increased because you are/were a Christian.

The RCC teaches that your baptism in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, in some way, put you in imperfect communion (made you a member) or made you belong in some sense to the Catholic Church!

Your idea that you are now no longer a Christian comes from the Protestant idea that the Church is composed only of the “true believers”…but just like in ancient Israel you belong to the Church by an objective act of grace (circumcision for Israel or baptism for the Church). Now we all know there were bad Israelites and we all know that there are bad Christians. But all who enter heaven will belong to the one bride of Christ - which is the one body of Christ, which is the one holy Catholic Church (Apostles’ Creed)and they will also be the ones who persevered in their faith and done good until the end…SO DONT GIVE UP. YOU CAN STILL MAKE IT AND YOU WILL ALWAYS BE HELD RESPONSIBLE BY GOD FOR THE LIGHT AND THE GRACE HE HAS ALREADY GIVEN TO YOU.
 
ROBAUTEN said:
Dear BareKnuckler / formerly Christianknight. It is too bad that you no longer consider yourself a Christian…but objectively if you were baptized you are still a Christian from that point on whether or not you currently feel like it. My suggestion is that you claim your baptismal grace and birthright and live like a Christian again. You might be a wayward or struggling Christian and you might even become reprobate and apostate but when you get to heaven you will be judged as a Christian for better or worse. If you are an apostate at that point your responsibility and guilt will only be increased because you are/were a Christian.

The RCC teaches that your baptism in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, in some way, put you in imperfect communion (made you a member) or made you belong in some sense to the Catholic Church!

Your idea that you are now no longer a Christian comes from the Protestant idea that the Church is composed only of the “true believers”…but just like in ancient Israel you belong to the Church by an objective act of grace (circumcision for Israel or baptism for the Church). Now we all know there were bad Israelites and we all know that there are bad Christians. But all who enter heaven will belong to the one bride of Christ - which is the one body of Christ, which is the one holy Catholic Church (Apostles’ Creed)and they will also be the ones who persevered in their faith and done good until the end…SO DONT GIVE UP. YOU CAN STILL MAKE IT AND YOU WILL ALWAYS BE HELD RESPONSIBLE BY GOD FOR THE LIGHT AND THE GRACE HE HAS ALREADY GIVEN TO YOU.
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To be straight out, I do not really care what the RCC teaches anymore. When I came here, I thought that you guys would be more tolerant then others, and ****, maybe your Church was the real one after all. After spending some time here, I realized I was wrong on 1, and probably wrong on the next.

Last Paragraph: I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the true church, and even if I considered myself a Christian it would be a cold day in hell when I join a Church with history like the RCC. God can hold me responsible, but at least I’ll go to hell not being a hypocrite and calling myself a Christian when I’m not.
 
BareKnuckler said:
To be straight out, I do not really care what the RCC teaches anymore. When I came here, I thought that you guys would be more tolerant then others, and ****, maybe your Church was the real one after all. After spending some time here, I realized I was wrong on 1, and probably wrong on the next.

Last Paragraph: I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the true church, and even if I considered myself a Christian it would be a cold day in hell when I join a Church with history like the RCC. God can hold me responsible, but at least I’ll go to hell not being a hypocrite and calling myself a Christian when I’m not.
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given up that quick? i thought you like to fight. i thought you would be a good asset in the Church. but i guess not.

:bowdown: :byzsoc:
 
For all those who Replied to my comments I got to say God bless. I don’t agree with you on everything But on the important things I agree with The Catholic church about Jesus.

Wisdom seeker I want to know what SS means? I hate to be left in the Dark about stuff? I think CC is Catholic church.

I belong to the Bathtis Church by the way. its the cloeset i can get to spelling it sorry for my bad spelling on my own domination. LOL
 
To former Catholic Knight. I have one thing that I hope changes

your mind about leaving your Chruch. You can’t blame the sin’s of

man on God. The Roman Catholic church may of done a lot of bad

things but remember. the people who did those things were not

acting on behalf of our Heavenly father you should Join the church

again for this reason. We don’t Follow men we Follow Christ.

Remember just because your not Catholic does not mean your not Christan.

The domination of christianty you want to join if you decided to

join it’s your choice.

The only other advice i can give you is study the bible and go off

of what god tells you pray to him and seek your answer from him.
 
wisdomseeker said:
given up that quick? i thought you like to fight. i thought you would be a good asset in the Church. but i guess not.

:bowdown: :byzsoc:
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lol, I do love to fight, and I am gonna start fighting in March hopefully. I would never join the Church, because I believen things the church would call evil.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
How dare you defame the Mother of Christ. If St. Paul heard the way you talked about Jesus Christ’s Mother, you would be very ashamed. Remember, Christ needed His Mother, just like you will when you die.
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Ahhh no. I didn’t defame her, I defamed you for placing her where she doesn’t belong. I think she was to be greatly admired. But here is what Jesus said the one time someone tried to put her where she didn’t belong:

"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” "–Luke 11:27,28
 
nbtb1348 said:
Ahhh no. I didn’t defame her, I defamed you for placing her where she doesn’t belong. I think she was to be greatly admired. But here is what Jesus said the one time someone tried to put her where she didn’t belong:

"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” "–Luke 11:27,28
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Hello nbtb1348,

What do you mean by “was to be greatly admired”?
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
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Luke 1:48
Mary did hear the “word of God” and she did observed it -
Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word."
Luke 1:38
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I do not understand your point here and why you would use a verse from a Catholic book, the Bible, to try to discredit a Catholic belief.

Are you implying that Mary did not hear “God’s word” and did not observe to word of God?

Mary is the only person who was with Christ from the beginning and stayed with him, to the foot of His cross.

Mary was in the room during Pentecost.

Mary was the mother of God and the perfect disciple.

I believe that you misunderstand the verse cited and are using it out-of –context.

Context is everything!
Luke2:29-35
*29 **“Now, Master, you may let your servant go in peace, according to your word, *
*30 **for my eyes have seen your salvation, *
*31 **which you prepared in sight of all the peoples, *
*32 **a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and glory for your people Israel.” *
*33 **The child’s father and mother were amazed at what was said about him; *
*34 **and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted *
*35 **(and you (MARY) yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” *
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Peace
 
I did some thinking about the bible and terms i learned. i found that

you are a cowered sir. Really syngod of satan LOL. You’r the one

that prays to marry and obey’s the pope like hes some kind of God.

maybe you should check yourself. I beilieve in Jesus and Catholic

believe in Christ. All im getting from your response and people like you is that getting is that The Catholic Chucrh is Hostil twords all other

Christians. the hatered seems like its coming from one way. I

never said anything of the sort about the catholic church being a

false

religion because fundametal we believe the same god. Unless

Catholic dont believe in the Holy tritny then maybe i was
mistaken.

My questin to all Cathlices is what Save you Jesus or the fact

you belong to your church its that simple?
 
for my last post all i wanted to say is I believe marry is to be but

Honored not prayed too. I don’t Believe in the Pope.

Note to all that Follow Christ Also Be mindful how you Judge

because god will Judge us all in the.

same way we Judge others.

Thanks for Reading my post all who cared to read them. :cool:
 
wooka64 said:
I did some thinking about the bible and terms i learned. i found that

you are a cowered sir. Really syngod of satan LOL. You’r the one

that prays to marry and obey’s the pope like hes some kind of God.

maybe you should check yourself. I beilieve in Jesus and Catholic

believe in Christ. All im getting from your response and people like you is that getting is that The Catholic Chucrh is Hostil twords all other

Christians. the hatered seems like its coming from one way. I

never said anything of the sort about the catholic church being a

false

religion because fundametal we believe the same god. Unless

Catholic dont believe in the Holy tritny then maybe i was
mistaken.

My questin to all Cathlices is what Save you Jesus or the fact

you belong to your church its that simple?
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Catechism of the Catholic Church

****169 ****Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

**183 **Faith is necessary for salvation. The Lord himself affirms: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (*Mk *16:16).

**620 **Our salvation flows from God’s initiative of love for us, because “he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins” (1 Jn 4:10). “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself” (*2 Cor *5:19).

**1741 **Liberation and salvation. By his glorious Cross Christ has won salvation for all men. He redeemed them from the sin that held them in bondage. “For freedom Christ has set us free.” In him we have communion with the “truth that makes us free.” The Holy Spirit has been given to us and, as the Apostle teaches, “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Already we glory in the “liberty of the children of God.”

**621 **Jesus freely offered himself for our salvation. Beforehand, during the Last Supper, he both symbolized this offering and made it really present: “This is my body which is given for you” (*Lk *22:19).

**1359 **The Eucharist, the sacrament of our salvation accomplished by Christ on the cross, is also a sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for the work of creation. In the Eucharistic sacrifice the whole of creation loved by God is presented to the Father through the death and the Resurrection of Christ. Through Christ the Church can offer the sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for all that God has made good, beautiful, and just in creation and in humanity.
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**
Catechism of the Catholic Church
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**

**161 **Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. “Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’”

**624 **“By the grace of God” Jesus tasted death “for every one”. In his plan of salvation, God ordained that his Son should not only “die for our sins” but should also “taste death”, experience the condition of death, the separation of his soul from his body, between the time he expired on the cross and the time he was raised from the dead. The state of the dead Christ is the mystery of the tomb and the descent into hell. It is the mystery of Holy Saturday, when Christ, lying in the tomb, reveals God’s great sabbath rest after the fulfillment of man’s salvation, which brings peace to the whole universe.

**64 **Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts. The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation which will include all the nations. Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord will bear this hope. Such holy women as Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith and Esther kept alive the hope of Israel’s salvation. The purest figure among them is Mary.

**2283 **We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

15 The second part of the Catechism explains how God’s salvation, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church’s liturgy (Section One), especially in the seven sacraments (Section Two).

**1584 **Since it is ultimately Christ who acts and effects salvation through the ordained minister, the unworthiness of the latter does not prevent Christ from acting. St. Augustine states this forcefully:

***As for the proud minister, he is to be ranked with the devil. Christ’s gift is not thereby profaned: what flows through him keeps its purity, and what passes through him remains dear and reaches the fertile earth. . . . The spiritual power of the sacrament is indeed comparable to light: those to be enlightened receive it in its purity, and if it should pass through defiled beings, it is not itself defiled. ***

**776 **As sacrament, the Church is Christ’s instrument. “She is taken up by him also as the instrument for the salvation of all,” “the universal sacrament of salvation,” by which Christ is “at once manifesting and actualizing the mystery of God’s love for men.” The Church “is the visible plan of God’s love for humanity,” because God desires “that the whole human race may become one People of God, form one Body of Christ, and be built up into one temple of the Holy Spirit.”

**780 **The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

**124 **“The Word of God, which is the power of God for salvation to everyone who has faith, is set forth and displays its power in a most wonderful way in the writings of the New Testament” which hand on the ultimate truth of God’s Revelation. Their central object is Jesus Christ, God’s incarnate Son: his acts, teachings, Passion and glorification, and his Church’s beginnings under the Spirit’s guidance.

**1332 **Holy Mass (Missa), because the liturgy in which the mystery of salvation is accomplished concludes with the sending forth (missio) of the faithful, so that they may fulfill God’s will in their daily lives.
 
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