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Ken
Guest
The set of integers {1,2,3} is finite.
The set {1,2,3…} is infinite.
The set of integers {4,5,6…} is infinite.
The set {1,2,3} does not preclude the set {4,5,6…} from being infinite.
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The set {1,2,3…} is infinite.
The set of integers {4,5,6…} is infinite.
The set {1,2,3} does not preclude the set {4,5,6…} from being infinite.
T
Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
Is it possible that Muslims, in fact, although not knowingly, don’t worship God at all…but in fact they might be worshipping a certain fallen angel?
This was suggested by the guest on last Friday’s broadcast of Catholic Answers Live.
What do you think----possible or not. If true then it would mean that the Muslims are not just confused, but VERY confused–frighteningly so.
This was suggested by the guest on last Friday’s broadcast of Catholic Answers Live.
What do you think----possible or not. If true then it would mean that the Muslims are not just confused, but VERY confused–frighteningly so.
K
kjvail
Guest
Tom of Assisi:
I think it’s not only possible, but likely. Once you understand the doctrines of Islam it’s inherent corruption becomes obvious.
I never said that Muslims were deliberately worshipping Lucifer. Islam is the second greatest trick he’s ever pulled (the first being convincing most people he didn’t exist).
I would have like to have heard that broadcast, perhaps its in the archives.Is it possible that Muslims, in fact, although not knowingly, don’t worship God at all…but in fact they might be worshipping a certain fallen angel?
This was suggested by the guest on last Friday’s broadcast of Catholic Answers Live.
What do you think----possible or not. If true then it would mean that the Muslims are not just confused, but VERY confused–frighteningly so.
I think it’s not only possible, but likely. Once you understand the doctrines of Islam it’s inherent corruption becomes obvious.
I never said that Muslims were deliberately worshipping Lucifer. Islam is the second greatest trick he’s ever pulled (the first being convincing most people he didn’t exist).
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Pellman
Guest
A quick look around the net will show that this question is anything but settled (as can be seen here), so perhaps I was too hasty to say “bunk.” However, even if the pagan moon god was denoted by al-ilah, this should not be surprising since it literally means “the god.” Worshippers of a particular god would of course refer to that god as “the god.” The most likely origin of the word–apart from its various uses over the years–is the same root as Hebrew’s elohim (probably borrowed from the Canaanite elohim plural meaning “the gods”).
Regarding many of the other posts: no matter how many horrible examples you provide of how demonic Islam is, the fact remains that the object of their worship is identified with the God of the Christian Bible. How can you say Islam has nothing to do with Christianity when Muslims believe that Jesus ascended to Heaven and will return to rule on Judgment Day? Until recently, Islam was commonly referred to as a Christian heresy. That probably only ceased because it is out of fashion to refer to anything as a heresy anymore (e.g., Protestantism).
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Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
The show was called “Salvation is from the Jews” and the comment was made in the context of how the God of the old and new testaments is a God of love and that he has a deep respect for the free will of human beings. These qualities of God were contrasted with the qualities of Allah, which seem to be of an altogether different nature.
great job on posting the pictures (I added to your rep. points). A picture is worth a thousand words.
Did you know the largest mosque in Europe is in Rome. I understand it is not too far from the Vatican (I believe it was built in the 1980s). So when the Western church and state divided–the Muslims moved in to…
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Robert_Simmons
Guest
The Church teaches that they do worship the one, true, God. They have a very poor understanding of Him. I like the way Hilaire Belloc in his book “Heresies” explains how Islam came about as an heretical off-shoot of Christianity.
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ms_cilantro
Guest
Read Islam and Terrorism by Mark A. Gabriel, PH.D a former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University in Egypt. He was also an imam of a mosque and converted to Christianity. He had to flee the country because his dad tried to kill him, as required by the quoran of someone who leaves “the faith”. He changed his name, obviously.
He gives a good history of Islam. He explains the inconsistancies in the quoran as to how some people can say it is a peaceful and tolerant religion.
He wrote this and another book Islam and the Jews after hearing the American press portray the 911 terrorists as fringe and not authentic representatives of Islam. He maintains that is authentic Islam. Islam is about world domination and the establishment of true Islamic nations. Living in peace with non-believers is tolerable until such a time as there is enough power to change the situation.
In the second book he states that allah is NOT God. I am not doing these books justice. They are clear, easy to read, and in depth.
He gives a good history of Islam. He explains the inconsistancies in the quoran as to how some people can say it is a peaceful and tolerant religion.
He wrote this and another book Islam and the Jews after hearing the American press portray the 911 terrorists as fringe and not authentic representatives of Islam. He maintains that is authentic Islam. Islam is about world domination and the establishment of true Islamic nations. Living in peace with non-believers is tolerable until such a time as there is enough power to change the situation.
In the second book he states that allah is NOT God. I am not doing these books justice. They are clear, easy to read, and in depth.
V
Vincent
Guest
In Japan, the Christian word for God “Kami”. Yet, before the Gospel was preached in Japan, the same term was used to denote Japanese pagan dieties. Non-Christian Japanese today still use the term, but they don’t think of the Trinity when they do. And when Catholics pray to “Kami-sama” at Mass, they aren’t referring to those that are honored at Shinto temples.
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ecs_220
Guest
Puzzling.
From among the many gods worshipped by the Bedouins, Mohammad chose the “moon-god” (known as Asimbabbar, Suen, and a number of other names) of the ancient Sumerians as the supposedly “one true god”, which he referred to as “Allah” and identified (incorrectly) as the God of Abraham. Perhaps a better, more consise way of putting it would be that the Muslims “believe that they worship the God of Abraham” (even though in fact they are in error), or that they “intend to worship the God of Abraham” (again, even though they are in error as to His true identity).
Perhaps that is what is meant by the statement “…these profess to hold the faith of Abraham…”, even though, of course, they are in error as to what that faith actually is. The next statement, however: “…together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” is the far more troubling, in view of the indisputable fact that YHWH, the One True God, is NOT one and the same with Asimbabbar, father of Ishtar. If such a notion has wormed its way into the official Catechism of the Catholic Church, perhaps an official inquiry is in order. Does anyone recall whether this can be found in the old “Baltimore Catechism”?
By the way, it is worth noting that a) one ancient symbol for this false “moon-god” is a calf, with crescent moon in place of horns on its head (one may wonder if such an image was worshipped by a wayward Chosen People in Moses’ absence), and 2) Our Lady is often depicted in Triumph with the moon (coincidentally ?] a symbol of Islam) under her feet.
A similar case of Mistaken Theological Identity exists among the LDS (Mormon) people: they believe that they worship Jesus Christ; they intend to worship Jesus Christ – even though their version of Jesus bears little resemblence, theologically, to the Christ of authentic Scripture.
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Calvin
Guest
Jack Chick agrees too!
chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp
chick.com/information/religions/islam/
-C
K
Ken
Guest
Does anyone know the history of the English word “god?”
How about the Latin word “deus?”
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squirt
Guest
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ecs_220
Guest
Well everybody’s entitled to be right about at least ONE thing; I guess that includes Mr. Chick.
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justme
Guest
This paragraph does not really state that muslims worship the same god as Christians…
I have added bold emphasis to show this…
Saying that, there is no dogmatic statement on this issue so we are free to disagree and say that they do not.
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squirt
Guest
You could also bold the rest of the statement if you wish …
and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day
OK … adore and worship aren’t exactly the same verb … but the whole sentence should be considered, eh?
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_Christopher
Guest
Ok, I do not support Islam at all, but this argument is kind of silly. It reminds me of Protestants saying that Catholics aren’t really Christians.
We might as well say that the Jews don’t worship the same God, since they deny the Trinity.
Ok, well, Jesus was Jewish. The Apostles were Jewish. If they didn’t worship the same God as we do, then Christianity has some fundamental problems.
We might as well say that the Jews don’t worship the same God, since they deny the Trinity.
Ok, well, Jesus was Jewish. The Apostles were Jewish. If they didn’t worship the same God as we do, then Christianity has some fundamental problems.
J
justme
Guest
Yes, we could but do we have to?
What I posted was what I heard on Catholic Answers Live, so if you have an issue with it I suggest you take it up with them…
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squirt
Guest
If you are suggesting that it is appropriate to take half a sentence out of a statement and ignore the rest to make a point as to what is being taught by someone, then my answer would be YES.
BTW, the term ‘profess’ is also used in the CCC in terms of what Catholics believe …
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brownse
Guest
NO. Bottom line. Mohommad married a child age 6.
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Gryphon
Guest
Just reading through here, and need to hit the hay soon… but your arguments strike me as confusing a few issues about different understandings of God vs. competing examples of false gods into one rather twisty ball of wax. Let me provide mundane examples to illustrate what I mean.
Case I…
“John” is the leader of a group. Some people think John is snooty and arrogant; some think John is wonderfully gracious; some think John is really smart and rather distant.
Despite differing opinions about John, it should be easy to agree they’re all talking about the same person, who is what he is. And all these opinions can’t be quite right… one group has a better understanding of the “real John,” although members of the faulty factions will find that hard to believe.
Case II…
Remember that John is the leader of this group of people. The fate of leaders is to be challenged by the people they lead.
So, among this group of people, there are those who say (incorrectly), “those people who think that John is the leader are just plain wrong. The real leader here is Paul (or George, or Ringo). He’s the one who brought this group together.”
Do their opinions about John’s true leadership status matter?
Yes… but not because it affects John. John still makes the rules, and those who break them suffer genuine consequences.
So the opinions of those who would rather follow Paul, George, or Ringo matters to the extent that doing so gets them into real trouble.
Case I illustrates the discussion about whether Christians, Muslims and Jews all worship the same God. Based on our common heritage in the OT, we are all clearly talking about the same Person. Our perspectives are so different, that it sometimes does sound like we’re talking about completely different “people” - but there is still the God of the Old Testament at the heart of each religion.
Case II illustrates the discussion about other “competing” candidates for the role of God… just because others set up false gods (Demiurg might be one option - money, power, fame, sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll are others) doesn’t affect the reality of the real One… but it does have real consequences for the soul of the person who does not acknowledge the True God.
So, to my (at the moment rather tired) mind… bringing examples of false gods into a discussion of different understandings of the real One just confuses, rather than clarifies, the situation.
God bless (no offense!),
Gryphon
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