Do Catholics honor Mary?

[reen12]

A further thought:

For myself, I’ve decided to stay as calm as
I can and say as softly as I can:

"I do not accept the principle of sola scriptura."

“As this is the case, I am not obligated
to provide a scriptural quote for any particular
objection to Roman Catholic doctrine that may
be forthcoming.”

reen12

 

[AsStAnselmPrays]

reen12:

"I do not accept the principle of sola scriptura."
reen12

I agree with you, Reen. I do not believe in sola scriptura. This reminds me, though, of a time in my 8th grade Bible class at my old Protestant school.

My teacher was talking about believing in Catholicism or believing in the Bible. He went on and said that he believed in sola scriptia (that’s what he wrote on the board, and I don’t know if that’s another way of spelling it for grammatical use). Then a student in my class, whom I have had many a confrontation with, went on to say “I believe in it, too!” Then I asked her, “Do you know what that means?” and she said, “No, but I heard my pastor talk about it, so it must be good…” I ended up telling her, and she said, “See! I told you so! It is good!”

Sorry, but that was so funny, the girl not knowing what she believes in. I thought it was funny. Blind faith is for the gullible.

AsStAnselmPrays

 

[Zippy]

reen12:

A further thought:

For myself, I’ve decided to stay as calm as
I can and say as softly as I can:

"I do not accept the principle of sola scriptura."

“As this is the case, I am not obligated
to provide a scriptural quote for any particular
objection to Roman Catholic doctrine that may
be forthcoming.”

reen12

Since the catholic government took the bible away from the average man for centuries because “we weren’t smart enough to really understand it” it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t find ultimate value in God’s word, you allow men with an agenda to interpret it for you…God warned of this.

 

[AsStAnselmPrays]

Zippy:

Since the catholic government took the bible away from the average man for centuries because “we weren’t smart enough to really understand it” it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t find ultimate value in God’s word, you allow men with an agenda to interpret it for you…God warned of this.

Nice use of the quotation marks, Zippy. While we are smart enough to READ the Bible, an individual person does not have the ability to interpret it’s contents. That is why the Church has councils and meetings, so that we can CORRECTLY interpret things. We don’t ask for God’s help to ignore it, we ask so he can lead us.

 

[Joannes]

Hello Zippy:

With all due respect (which isn’t much, considering your statement!), your charge is not only dumb, but it’s false witness, forbidden by your 9th commandment. I’d take it back if I were you.

But for now, I challenge you to prove it. Show us evidence that the Church “took the bible away from the average man for centuries.”

Your charge is ridiculous because it is so easily disproven. If you had any real grasp of history you would know that the Middle Ages, which you so excoriate as Catholic, were an age in which the common man was steeped in the Bible. We see references to the Bible in most of the literature of the time, whereas we certainly do not see the same today, an age in which you would brag that the “common man” is free to read the Bible! In fact, your Protestant principles have brought the Bible into disrepute.

By your silly statement you have just proven the truth of the adage of Cardinal Newman that “to be Protestant is to be ignorant of history”.

Regards,
Joannes

Zippy:

Since the catholic government took the bible away from the average man for centuries because “we weren’t smart enough to really understand it” it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t find ultimate value in God’s word, you allow men with an agenda to interpret it for you…God warned of this.

 

[CARose]

Zippy:

Since the catholic government took the bible away from the average man for centuries because “we weren’t smart enough to really understand it” it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t find ultimate value in God’s word, you allow men with an agenda to interpret it for you…God warned of this.

Zippy,

What you call the Catholic Government is a very special gift given to us by Christ himself in Ceasare Phillipi, when he gave the Keys of the Kingdom to Peter. He chose the weakest to be his strongest leader, making it obvious from where his strength derives.

When disputes, such as the ones that have been seen on so many threads here have come up over the centuries / millenium, someone needs to be in the position of ultimate authority, to be depended upon to discern the ultimate truth, as given by an immutable God, worthy of our full devotion.

This authority, as told to us in the bible, is the Church, the Pillar and Foundation (or Bulwarks, depending on your translation) of the Truth. See 1 Tim 3:15. We are also told that if there is a dispute as to the truth, we are to take the issue first directly to the individual who disputes the truth. If they don’t accept our correction, we bring at least 2 friends. If that doesn’t work, we are asked to bring it to the Church which has Authority.

This authority must have the power to teach correctly on all occations. The only Church which even suggests they have this is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Roman Catholic Church. Each of the major disputes over time has been decided and the resultant discernment of the teachings handed down since Christ taught the Apostles and the words of Holy Scripture are retained to prevent others from making the error under discussion. These errors are referred to as “Heresy” and we strive to avoid any error that might seperate us from God.

God is good and deserving of all our Love. Love, properly defined is selfless giving, as exemplified by Christ’s selfless giving of his life on the Cross. If we can give the entirety of our lives to Christ, we begin to attain the fullness of what we have been made to be.

Zippy, I don’t know why you come here, unless the Holy Spirit desires that you open your heart to understand these Catholics to whom you preach. If you come to “save” us, please start by following the precept of Christ which makes the highest of all commandments, after Love God, to be “Love your Neighbor as Yourself”. We stand here as your neighbor, we’d prefer to not be your enemy, but if you see us as such, Christ calls you to love us, even so. If you open yourself to Christ’s love, you may find room to see how Christ has worked through the Roman Catholic Church.

Peace be with you,

CARose

 

[reen12]

Dear Ziggy,

You’re right. I don’t find “ultimate value” in God’s
word. I find ultimate value in the Word of God,
Jesus, of Whom the scriptures testify to.

Best wishes,
reen12

God gave us His written word in the Old
Testament. He spoke His word through
the prophets. And in the fulness of time,
the Word of God became incarnate in
Jesus. The New Testament witnesses to
the works and words of the Word of God
and is, itself, the word of God.

 

[Lorarose]

Hello Zippy:

With all due respect (which isn’t much, considering your statement!), your charge is not only dumb, but it’s false witness, forbidden by your 9th commandment. I’d take it back if I were you.

Hey Joannes!!

If you look at the DaVinci thread you’ll notice something similar about Zippy’s posts.
Zippy accuses the catholic church of twisting history - and yet Zippy was caught redhanded by Deacon Ed trying to pass a lie off as historical fact.
Zippy has failed to acknowledge this or retract it - and isn’t responding to Deacon Ed’s latest post.

You will notice the same thing here.
If Zippy wanted to take an honest look at history - it is obvious that printing presses and copy machines have not been around FOREVER!
Yes…shocking but true.

In fact the earliest forms of scripture had to be copied by hand and guarded as being a christians was punishable by death in the first centuries.
When a church had a copy of manuscripts/letters (that eventually were DECLARED divinely inspired by the CHURCH) that church guarded this precious treasure so they could read it together at mass.
Many of the average folks were illiterate, and mass was the only place they had the opportunity to hear scripture.

And so…up until the invention of the first printing press - scripture was being copied by hand. But even some of those copies wound up being infected with error - and it was the Church’s duty to root out those error infected translations.

The only reason we have the New Testament today is because of the diligence of the Catholic Church - and THAT is a historical fact.

 

[mommy]

Zippy:

Worship would be a better word than honor.

Catholics worship Mary

I just got back from Mass, the readings, and homily were all about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and Eucharist it was ALL about the worship of GOD. and ONLY God. You are 100% mistaken on this.

We Catholics receive communion, the priest says “The Body of Christ” Not “The Blessed Virgin”

I honor my mother, I honor my husbands mother, I will certainly honor Jesus’ mother. I don’t worship any of them.

 

[Zippy]

Lorarose:

Hey Joannes!!

If you look at the DaVinci thread you’ll notice something similar about Zippy’s posts.
Zippy accuses the catholic church of twisting history - and yet Zippy was caught redhanded by Deacon Ed trying to pass a lie off as historical fact.
Zippy has failed to acknowledge this or retract it - and isn’t responding to Deacon Ed’s latest post.

You will notice the same thing here.
If Zippy wanted to take an honest look at history - it is obvious that printing presses and copy machines have not been around FOREVER!
Yes…shocking but true.

In fact the earliest forms of scripture had to be copied by hand and guarded as being a christians was punishable by death in the first centuries.
When a church had a copy of manuscripts/letters (that eventually were DECLARED divinely inspired by the CHURCH) that church guarded this precious treasure so they could read it together at mass.
Many of the average folks were illiterate, and mass was the only place they had the opportunity to hear scripture.

And so…up until the invention of the first printing press - scripture was being copied by hand. But even some of those copies wound up being infected with error - and it was the Church’s duty to root out those error infected translations.

The only reason we have the New Testament today is because of the diligence of the Catholic Church - and THAT is a historical fact.

I refrained from continuing the discussion on that thread because the moderator said that things were getting off topic. In keeping with the rules of the forum, I complied with that request.

The fact reamins that Gregory the Great DID make the statements I stated, THAT IS A FACT!!! Even catholic websites like doctorsofthecatholicchurch.com/GG.html confirm (scroll to the very bottom of the page) I did not make anything up, and the catholic government has in fact altered it’s view of Mary Magdalene.

I have read and quote that: “The universal church in its general revision of the Roman Missal in 1969, essentially retracted the assertion Pope Gregory the Great made in a sermon in 591: that she whom Luke calls the sinful woman, whom John called Mary (of Bethany), we believe to be the Mary from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark.” That was how the church viewed Mary Magdalen then…But Mary Magdalen’s voice is being heard more and more now.

Seems that you may want to brush up a bit on your history…

It’s also very sad that it took the “church” over 1300 years to correct this blatant lie…

 

[Church_Militant]

Zippy:

The last thing I need is to be catholic…That would be diluting my beliefs with political fallacies of the cathilic government system.

You NEED to stop hijacking this thread and act like a Christian and follow the rules that you agreed to when you joined this forum.
take note:
CONDUCT RULES

1. Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
2. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board. :tsktsk:

 

[Zippy]

Church Militant:

You NEED to stop hijacking this thread and act like a Christian and follow the rules that you agreed to when you joined this forum.
take note:
CONDUCT RULES

1. Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
2. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board. :tsktsk:

I’m simply pointing out the inconsistancies of the catholic church. Do you not want to fully explore ALL TRUTHS, or do you just want to believe what one group wants you to believe is the truth regardless of the facts?

 

[Lorarose]

The fact reamins that Gregory the Great DID make the statements I stated, THAT IS A FACT!!!

No he didn’t!!
And again on this thread you misrepresent the history of the bible.
You misrepresent catholic teaching regarding Mary.

There are threads on the apologetics forum regarding idolatry and Mary’s role as intercessor.
Why don’t you join in?

 

[Zippy]

Lorarose:

No he didn’t!!
And again on this thread you misrepresent the history of the bible.
You misrepresent catholic teaching regarding Mary.

There are threads on the apologetics forum regarding idolatry and Mary’s role as intercessor.
Why don’t you join in?

Why then in the Roman Missal if 1969 did they correct a statement that was never made?

You can continue to ignore historical facts, but it really doesn’t help one end up at the TRUTH.

stthomasirondequoit.com/SaintsAlive/id114.htm

When the Catholic Church revised the Missal in 1969, the wiser view was adopted that Mary Magdalene was separate from the sinning woman and Mary of Bethany. Now her feast recognizes only the woman from Magdala. The collect of her Mass says, “Father, your Son first entrusted to Mary Magdalene the joyful news of His resurrection…” In the north window of this church of St. Thomas the Apostle, she and St. Thomas the Doubter are represented flanking the Risen Christ. Both were primary witnesses of His resurrection: Mary Magdalene to whom He first lovingly disclosed Himself; Thomas, the skeptic turned rapturous believer: “My Lord and my God.” Excertp from stthomasirondequoit.com (link above)

harpercollins.co.uk/Resources/extracts/ex_ch_magdalene_legacy_gardner.pdf

 

[Lorarose]

Why then in the Roman Missal if 1969 did they correct a statement that was never made?

What statement in the 1969 Roman Missal are you referring to?
The link you provided never mentions Gregory the Great.
Again - this is wishful thinking in your anti-catholic mind.

Since you persist - I will start a thread in apologetics.

 

[Zippy]

Lorarose:

What statement in the 1969 Roman Missal are you referring to?
The link you provided never mentions Gregory the Great.
Again - this is wishful thinking in your anti-catholic mind.

Since you persist - I will start a thread in apologetics.

Have fun!!

I don’t need an apologist to read and understand basic facts.

 

[Lorarose]

What’s wrong Zippy? They are the same folks over there as they are here.
Or are you only interested in hijacking someone else’s thread?

I don’t need an apologist to read and understand basic facts.

Hmmm…it seems to me you haven’t read and understood the basic facts in the very links you provided!

Here is the new thread - let’s see if you are genuinely interested in discussing the truth, or if you are only here to harass people.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=41061

 

[Zippy]

Lorarose:

What’s wrong Zippy? They are the same folks over there as they are here.
Or are you only interested in hijacking someone else’s thread?

Hmmm…it seems to me you haven’t read and understood the basic facts in the very links you provided!

Here is the new thread - let’s see if you are genuinely interested in discussing the truth, or if you are only here to harass people.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=41061

msnbc.msn.com/id/3606237/site/newsweek/

Was Mary M. a prostitute?
This misperception probably began with a sermon by Pope Gregory the Great in A.D. 591 in which he conflated several figures into one. In 1969 the Vatican officially overruled Gregory.

How many citations do you want…

 

[Zippy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorarose
*Still lookiing for the “proof” Zippy!

Gregory the Great’s epistle 33 says no such thing.
The links you provide don’t say that he did either.*

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to fo out and learn the truth yourself? Why would you look to others to do the research for you? Are you afraid that you’ll learn that I am sharing the truth with you?

I’ve cited several sources that clearly state that Mary Magdalene was misrepresented by Pope Gregory in the year 591, and that the catholic church revised his teachings in 1969. Many of those sources are from catholic resources, they are factual.

 

[Church_Militant]

msnbc.msn.com/id/3606237/site/newsweek/

Was Mary M. a prostitute?
This misperception probably began with a sermon by Pope Gregory the Great in A.D. 591 in which he conflated several figures into one. In 1969 the Vatican officially overruled Gregory.

How many citations do you want…

Off topic threadjacking in progress!