Do Catholics still support Trump

[PaulinVA]

What did I not know what I was talking about? The Sean Spicer statement refers to his @POTUS account if you look at the context, and he is no longer there so we don’t know if the President agreed with him on that.

Official White House statements are also different than @RealDonaldTrump tweets. I don’t see how you can confuse the two, they are two different things.

Spicer: “The President is the President of the United States, so they’re considered official statements by the President of the United States,” Spicer said, when asked during his daily briefing how they should be characterized. Spicer did not indicate whether that included both of the President’s Twitter handles: @realDonaldTrump and @POTUS.

And, in case you want to follow your line of arguement, Trump’s own DOJ says they are official statements:

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www.washingtontimes.com

The Department of Justice is treating President Trump’s frequent Twitter posts as official statements, attorneys for the government wrote in a new federal court filing.

Justice Department lawyers qualified the president’s tweets in an eight-page submission entered in D.C. federal court Monday after U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta asked the government earlier this month for clarification concerning Mr. Trump’s Twitter musings.

“The Court has asked, broadly, about the official status of the President’s tweets … asking the parties to ‘provide insight on … the President’s tweets and what they are, how official they are, are they statements of the White House and the President,’ ” Justice Department attorneys wrote Monday citing a Nov. 2 status conference hearing.

“In answer to the Court’s question, the government is treating the President’s statements to which plaintiffs point — whether by tweet, speech or interview — as official statements of the President of the United States,” the Justice Department responded.

 

[guanophore]

POTUS is not a Saint. Why are we expecting him to be a Saint? He owned Beauty pageants.

I fail to see what these things have to do with each other, but what makes you think that anyone is expecting him to be a saint? We vote for a President, not a saint! The expectation here is for Presidential behavior, and some semblance of decorum. Having a president who does not understand or support the constitution is inherently problematic.

Who stands in JUDGEMENT on him. Observations, of factually checked, news statements,are valid.

He will only answer to God, the One from Whom he does not want to ask forgiveness, for judgment. As for his behaviors, we can only go by what we see and hear. What can be said about the character of a person who believes greed is a virtue, and as a powerful person who will mock a disabled reporter?


is there nothing between “saint” and common civility?

What our life experiences and values,are the reason why we chose, for whom we voted.

Each of us has to deal w the after math.

?This is well said.

BUT WE WANT WALL!!

Who are “WE”? The Mexicans who are supposed to pay for the wall?

Lord, give us WISDOM! Change our hearts to be as yours. Give us courage to be like You. In Jesus name

AMEN!

 

[whyeyeman]

I oppose democracy. And I oppose the modern conception of human rights, because they have no real meaning anymore and are just subjects to the whims of the United Nations.

 

[guanophore]

POTUS is not a Saint. Why are we expecting him to be a Saint? He owned Beauty pageants.

I fail to see what these things have to do with each other, but what makes you think that anyone is expecting him to be a saint? We vote for a President, not a saint! The expectation here is for Presidential behavior, and some semblance of decorum. Having a president who does not understand or support the constitution is inherently problematic.

Who stands in JUDGEMENT on him. Observations, of factually checked, news statements,are valid.

He will only answer to God, the One from Whom he does not want to ask forgiveness, for judgment. As for his behaviors, we can only go by what we see and hear. What can be said about the character of a person who believes greed is a virtue, and as a powerful person who will mock a disabled reporter?


is there nothing between “saint” and common civility?

What our life experiences and values,are the reason why we chose, for whom we voted.

Each of us has to deal w the after math.

?This is well said.

BUT WE WANT WALL!!

Who are “WE”? The Mexicans who are supposed to pay for the wall?

Lord, give us WISDOM! Change our hearts to be as yours. Give us courage to be like You. In Jesus name

AMEN!

 

[Axsenex]

Reagan won nearly all of them but he’s buried in that state… forgetful Reagan sound good now.

 

[anon65111186]

So when you claim that Trump says that being, like really smart is an official White House statement, then you really have no more argument, yet I do have an argument that it is unofficial and entertainment.

How those requesting clarification on the tweets of the Department of Justice will use that quote is TBD.

A little bit more discernment on that would do you well. When they all become official statements, even when the tone, context, and subject have nothing to do with official matters and all about his personal opinion, then you clearly have proven my point.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Official or not, most of them are inappropriate and childish.

 

[anon65111186]

But you are right, I am not aware of any other instance of him mocking a disabled person caught on video.

Compare your video with the one I previously posted:

is concerning that you admit the President of the United States is making disparaging gestures and making fun of people, yet you do not seem to be concerned about this behavior.

I am concerned for Trump and his bad behavior, and I pray for him, but your line of reasoning is more in line with ad hominem, which gets into hypocritical territory. Take the beam out of your own eye first.

Just as unrelated, have you ever made fun of someone? Have you ever sinned in such a fashion?

Perhaps he does use the same gesture to mock others as well? How is this behavior at all defensible?

Am I defending the behavior? That is you projecting something on to me that is not there. I am arguing that anyone can observe that his gesture, though it looks similar to a disabled person’s gestures, is used and has been used by him even before the reporter with a disability.

The real question is, did the reporter make the same gesture? How do you know that gesture was the same or even referring to his disability? Everyone seems so confident about it, but no one questions that.

so he attacked his disability.

Did he mention disability? Again, you are reading into his habitual gesture.

This is a form of ad hominem response. It is a primitive and ineffective defense used by those who don’t know any better way to respond to allegations.

Yes, we all know how bad ad hominem is, yet those who decry it tend to use it the most, ironic.

You seemed to defend Trump’s mocking behavior by putting it in the context of a “roast”. Mocking is a form of hostility toward others. I am glad that you are not defending this behavior, but your response here would seem to indicate that you agree that such behavior does reflect an evil mentality.

I don’t agree and you are putting words and intentions and attitudes onto me that don’t exist, just as you do Trump. He is not your scape goat, and neither am I.

I admit that I have been really lost by not finding anything to replace my beloved “view first unread post” button on the top of the thread. If you or anyone else can direct me how to find that, it would help a lot. I know I am missing chunks of the conversation, but the only way I have found to go back to them is the little arrow in the reply.

If you can’t be bothered to read the whole post, and have to have me search the thread for you to find my post, then God give you the grace.

 

[dvdjs]

I oppose democracy. And I oppose the modern conception of human rights,

thanks for your candor.

 

[dvdjs]

I oppose democracy. And I oppose the modern conception of human rights,

thanks for your candor.

he does gesture to all people

All? That makes two, three, … I don’t that constitutes proof fo a false characterization,.

 

[whyeyeman]

You’re welcome.

(16 characters)

 

[PaulinVA]

That’s all you had to do, thank you for proving my point, whether you fully comprehend what you are admitting to or not.

Okay, we agree! I have no clue what you are talking about when you say I proved your point.

Describe for me official, because I don’t think we are on the same page on it’s meaning and scope and weight. As you seem to admit, even (ridiculous) or erroneous things are official, it doesn’t make them less so because they are official.

An official statement is one that can be used to discern an Administration’s policies or beliefs on a certain subject. It is sanctioned by the Administration.

The fact that it is owned by Trump, who is also the President was not lost on me, whether what he says was official in the sense of the word you seem to be using it, was my point.

The White House and DOJ are saying they are official, that is, sanctioned statements from the Administration.

Wow, first post in a long line of many where I could honestly say maybe you’re a believer! Be aware of how you come across, especially on a Catholic.com forum.

I was not attacking you, just letting you know about how I perceive you, and my own inability to honestly tell you apart from people of the world. I’m sure if you asked around others would have trouble as well. My inability to identify you as Christian is a not an attack or ad hominem, but a fact.

I said it not because I lost some argument to you, but in hopes you would realize your ways and change.

Yes, this was an attack on me. I’m sorry I don’t comport to your ideal of a Catholic.

Quoting the bible does not make one a Christian. Don’t be fooled by that. AND, don’t be fooled by outwardly religious people (like pedophile priests) who end up doing terrible things. Likewise, some of the nicest, most generous people I know are NOT outwardly pious or religious but would give you the shirt off their backs.

And, you are very confused at to what a fact is versus an opinion. In your opinion, you could not identify me as a Christian. A fact is that it is 19 degrees outside, or the DOJ said Trump’s Tweets are official statements. Don’t cloak your opinion as a fact.

 

[PaulinVA]

I can’t imagine any Catholic that thinks saying “you are making sh!t up” is appropriate on a Catholic forum, that was what I was talking about.

Well, I will admit that on the old Catholic Answers I probably wouldn’t have done that because the mods would have been all over me. But, also, I know Catholics who wouldn’t find a problem with that statement.

So the reality of my own inability to judge whether you are Christian is an opinion, not a fact? So it’s just my opinion and the fact is I really can tell whether you are a Christian? Man please think of the logical conclusion of what you are saying.

It is not I who has a problem understanding that. Yes, you could say, “It is a fact that Timothy thinks Paul is not a Christian”. That is true. It has no bearing on whether or not Paul is factually a Christian, though. It’s just Timothy’s opinion. Understand?

Yes, not all who quote are Christian, and not all who are outwardly pious actually are. Still, no virtue or corporal works of mercy excuse using profanity, especially on a Catholic forum with other Catholics.

As I said, I probably wouldn’t do it on the old site. But, also, I really don’t think that it’s your place to call everyone out that posts things that you think of as “wordly” or unChristian.

 

[upant]

“she won wackyfornia by 4.3 million votes.”

I really object to this sort of massive discounting of an entire state.

i don’t know.

there are many examples to prove it. here is one that gave me a chuckle. they wanted that weed gone.

of course wackiflorida could give wackicali a run for the title.

WEED IN SIDEWALK TRIGGERS $2,500 PENALTY
The citations noted problems as minor as “a weed growing through a crack in the sidewalk.”

He promptly fixed that, but what he didn’t know was that two inspectors each had cited him for the weed, so while one complaint was resolved, “fees were racking up” on the second,” eventually totaling $2,500. (wnd.com)

 

[anon65111186]

As I said, I probably wouldn’t do it on the old site. But, also, I really don’t think that it’s your place to call everyone out that posts things that you think of as “wordly” or unChristian.

It sounds like you are saying you do it because the mods are lax or some Catholics don’t mind, which are two poor excuses for using bad language. This is not the military or a fraternity etc, lots of seekers come here who want to get to know Catholics and Catholicism and we must show them what we are all about.

To be honest is it really your place to call me out either, with ad hominems about how much I know or whether my own estimation of my own ability is my opinion or not, and so on?

Or is it your place to go on negatively and rant about Trump and how bad he is? I think you can dish it out but can’t take it.

The post is about whether Catholics support Trump, I think you made it very clear where you stand so you can just move on, unless you feel called by God to just unload on Trump further, which I highly doubt.

Am I my brother’s keeper? Yes, I do think I am and so I pointed out that, because the first thing I think is you sound like you came straight off a fox news or cnn forum, with little filter and Christian spirit. I would hope you or other Catholics would point out when I was being uncharitable or not living up to basic Catholic standards.

 

[PaulinVA]

It sounds like you are saying you do it because the mods are lax or some Catholics don’t mind, which are two poor excuses for using bad language. This is not the military or a fraternity etc, lots of seekers come here who want to get to know Catholics and Catholicism and we must show them what we are all about.

Dude, it’s the internet. Get over it. Do you want me to apologize for offending you? I doubt you were offended because you repeated what I said! So, the same to you!

To be honest is it really your place to call me out either, with ad hominems about how much I know or whether my own estimation of my own ability is my opinion or not, and so on?

You still don’t get it. I’ve said you don’t know what you are talking about when you said Trump’s tweets were personal, and I gave you example after example from people who know that they are official. That’s not an ad hominem attack. That’s fraternal correction.

Or is it your place to go on negatively and rant about Trump and how bad he is? I think you can dish it out but can’t take it.

Sigh. I am not a sociopathic, narcissistic, demagogue. I am not a public figure. I am not the President. He is fair game for all criticism. That’s the way this country works.

The post is about whether Catholics support Trump, I think you made it very clear where you stand so you can just move on, unless you feel called by God to just unload on Trump further, which I highly doubt.

Ah, an appeal to authority. You’ve set up a situation that, in your mind, I have to say I’m led by God before I post again. I reject your premise. I’ll post when I want and what I want. I’ll continue to correct people who don’t bother to check facts before they post.

Am I my brother’s keeper? Yes, I do think I am and so I pointed out that, because the first thing I think is you sound like you came straight off a fox news or cnn forum, with little filter and Christian spirit. I would hope you or other Catholics would point out when I was being uncharitable or not living up to basic Catholic standards.

Please, do not feel that you need to be my keeper. As to attempting to insult me by saying I came from some Fox News or CNN forum, remember that Fox is blindly pro-Trump, so that doesn’t make sense.

As for Christian spirit, I think that is imperative for every Catholic, every Christian, to see that supporting such a terrible person is morally wrong. You might disagree.

Tell you what - Fire back with everything you’ve got and I won’t respond and we’ll let this die.

 

[anon65111186]

He is fair game for all criticism. That’s the way this country works.

No, he isn’t fair game for libel, detraction, calumny. By the Catechism of the Catholic Church and even civil law you just can’t say whatever you want.

, I have to say I’m led by God before I post again.

Do you consult God before you do things? That is a pretty good guide for behavior. I appealed to the authority of God who by the way is the authority above all and the one you will answer to when you die, so that is a logical fallacy in your opinion. For one so acquianted with logical fallacy you surely can’t recognize ad hominem from fraternal correction.

As to attempting to insult me by saying I came from some Fox News or CNN forum, remember that Fox is blindly pro-Trump, so that doesn’t make sense.

I was not attempting to insult you, just give you my impression. Have you been to the fox or CNN commentary section of lately?

 

[Axsenex]

Trump used bad language all the times :man_technologist:t2:

 

[anon65111186]

Trump used bad language all the times

That’s not any more acceptable, I don’t condone anything bad Trump does, but support the good, as all Catholics may.

St. Thomas says we ought to accept the truth and the good nomatter where we find it. I reject the bad of Trump while accepting the good. Those who say the evil cancels it out or eliminates the good throw the baby out with the bathwater and are left with nothing.

There is no practical alternative to Trump, at least not for another 3-7 years. We must pray for him and make due with the flawed sinner he is, like we all are. Those who think themselves better than him need to check their pride at the door.

 

[Axsenex]

All right… I guess we deserved a VeRy sTaBlE GeNiUs to make us look smarter than the penguins in Antarctica.

Meanwhile…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Good times :call_me_hand:t2: