Do Catholics still support Trump

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I support him because he is saving our country from the Democratic party, who would destroy it.

That is not hard to understand.
 
PetraG said:
If he were so clearly guilty of something that he will admit he’s guilty when confronted with the facts, that would be different if he were not also Donald Trump. I don’t think that will happen, guilty or not, because I don’t think he has any quit in him.
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Who are you to judge him, do you know him personally? Apart from what the media tells you about him, you don’t know him as a person.

Charity demands we give people the benefit of the doubt, and not to charge them guilty until proven innocent. That is simply the Catholic way.

Let me ask you this, would you have others treat you the way you treat or talk about Trump?
 
There is no there there. The Mueller investigation is obviously politically motivated by Democrats and Republicans alike who 1) are embarrassed and humiliated at losing a race they were sure they had in the bag, 2) are not beholden to the American people but to their donors, and 3) who fear they will lose their influence if Trump and other populists retain control of the government.

This is why they are trying to bring Trump down by any means necessary. The Access Hollywood tape failed. Now they’re grasping at straws.
 
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OKi said:
I support him because he is saving our country from the Democratic party, who would destroy it.

That is not hard to understand.
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That is a very easy stance to understand. It’s the rest of him that is hard to accept.
 
anon65111186 said:
Who are you to judge him, do you know him personally? Apart from what the media tells you about him, you don’t know him as a person.

Charity demands we give people the benefit of the doubt, and not to charge them guilty until proven innocent. That is simply the Catholic way.

Let me ask you this, would you have others treat you the way you treat or talk about Trump?
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Note that I said “IF” he were so clearly guilty. I merely said he wouldn’t quit until he was convicted, not that he is in fact guilty. I don’t think he’d find that an insult or that he’d disagree.

Nixon resigned. I don’t think Trump would. He has abandoned cases in court, he’s settled (even though he has also said he never does), but this is an area where I don’t think he ever would. I don’t think he’d quit. He’d have to be removed.
 
Let me suggest you are telling me to go to google because you are talking nonsense and you know it.

It makes perfect sense not to agree to international agreements that cost billions and may well be pointless.
 
I wouldn’t associate a person’s sins with their person. He isn’t vile, but some of the things he has repented of were vile, and good for him for repenting. We should rather treat him as we would like to be treated, even if we don’t agree on a few or a great many things. That is Catholic charity.

I did read a lot of things I would not say myself, but that doesn’t make him unsupportable, for the basic fact is he is effective at accomplishing things politically which others are unable or unwilling or even opposed to.

I of course don’t agree with those words and think he seriously should not have said them, but he thinks the same way, and hasn’t made the same mistake twice. Have some mercy and forgiveness in your heart for the man, and maybe God will be just as forgiving and merciful to you when you sin.
 
PetraG said:
Nixon resigned. I don’t think Trump would. He has abandoned cases in court, he’s settled (even though he has also said he never does), but this is an area where I don’t think he ever would. I don’t think he’d quit. He’d have to be removed.
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Again, its fruitless and banal speculation, what spiritual value is in such things? We do not know the future, only God does, and we have no business speculating, just pray and ask God for assistance in our lives, instead of paying so much attention to the faults of others.
 
That’s an opinion.

Even Chuck Schumer wanted to stop the diversity lottery.
 
PetraG said:
Nixon resigned. I don’t think Trump would. He has abandoned cases in court, he’s settled (even though he has also said he never does), but this is an area where I don’t think he ever would. I don’t think he’d quit. He’d have to be removed.
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The vast cases of court cases are settled outside of court.

As the old saying goes, if you can’t settle, it means your lawyers are terrible.
 
You had said you can’t understand how anybody could support him. I just told you why. Now you know.
 
I find many Trump critics very presumptuous, as if they can read his mind and know all his motivations.

Trump Derangement Syndrome is an apt description for the state of their minds.
 
It’s not hard at all to accept. I find Trump funny actually. I also find it entertaining how bunged up his critics get.
 
The vile comments from the Access Hollywood tape were from about 11 years ago. He has repented publicly.

I know of nothing “vile” that he has said since then. If you can’t give an example your charge is baseless.
 
anon65111186 said:
For a master negotiator, Trump is pretty dumb.

So wordly, there is no reason to speak in such a way.
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LOL. Please try to address this issue. If you like, I’ll rephrase:

For a master negotiator, Trump made a deal that is pretty dumb. Oh, wait. It wasn’t even a deal. He. just. gave. away. a negotiation. point.
anon65111186 said:
For years, US policy has been to avoid declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel in the absence of an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal

Were they getting any closer to an agreement? In fact they have been getting farther and farther away over time.
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Laughing again. What do you mean -“Since the sides have gotten further away, let’s just blow up the chances”?
anon65111186 said:
Donald Trump is the leader of the free world. His every statement is parsed by leaders the world over. He. is. a. liar. That is a fact. It is not uncharitable. It is the truth.

Are you a liar, have you ever sinned? Cast the first stone if you haven’t, otherwise don’t add to the detraction and calumny the world the flesh and the devil loves.
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You really need to learn how to debate. I am not the President of the United States. He is. Address my statements, don’t try to distract with your “what about you” arguments.
 
I agree Trump would never resign - he’d never have cause to. No president’s ever been under more scrutiny.
 
anon65111186 said:
Again, its fruitless and banal speculation, what spiritual value is in such things? We do not know the future, only God does, and we have no business speculating, just pray and ask God for assistance in our lives, instead of paying so much attention to the faults of others.
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The topic of the thread is whether or not we support the current President of the United States. How we’re supposed to do this without employing any prudential judgment, I’m sure I do not know.

In my judgment, IF Mr. Trump were guilty of something, he would not resign. I not believe that is rash judgment, and I do not think Mr. Trump himself would find the conjecture insulting. He’d say he’s not a quitter; I’d agree.

I have paid attention to his past behavior. He has responded to criticism by denying he said or did what he said or did, even in cases where he said it or did it at a campaign rally while being videotaped and in front of hundreds of witnesses. I looked it up myself. The newspapers he has criticized for publishing things that have turned out to be eroneous later have issued public retractions, but he is conspicuously averse to doing the same.

That is why it is logical to take it as somewhat meaningful when a reputable newspaper does not issue a retraction but more or less meaningless when the President issues a denial.

The President has lied in cases where the truthfulness of what he was saying could be easily checked. He has even done it when he wasn’t cornered! Members of his administration have also been caught defending him by saying things that were not true. Kellyanne Conway even once (infamously) said: "Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts.” There is no such thing as alternative facts, not anymore than there is such a thing as “truthful hyperbole.”

So, there you have it. I hope the President accomplishes good things. Should he try to accomplish something contrary to the Gospel, I hope he fails. When he testifies on his own behalf, whether spontaneously or under duress, I put no weight in it. Sometimes he tells the truth, but sometimes he just makes stuff up. I wait to hear evidence from an independent source; his word means nothing to me. I can’t support that habit of his; it is detestable, it is unfitting for someone holding the office he does, and I do not care how many instances of false statements that anyone wants to produce in a ridiculous attempt to defend him. He has a reputation of just making stuff up, and he has earned it in a way no one in modern politics has yet been brazen enough to try.
 
I was deeply involved in nuclear weapons in the Navy. The two statements you say are inconsistent are not. “Capability” and “size” are two different things, especially with our nuclear strategy. “Size” means how many warheads you have. That number is fixed by the START treaty. “Capability” refers to the ability of the arsenal to take out what it wants to take out and not take out what it doesn’t. Russia does not care so much about the second part of that and their strategy has been to make their weapons as destructive as possible.

Our strategy has been toward accuracy and less collateral damage from fallout, EMP, etc. That is why we have MIRV’ed warheads, great missile delivery platforms and highly accurate guidance systems. So one can increase capability without increasing size.

Also, there is no politician who is perfectly consistent in their statements anyway.
 
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OKi said:
I agree Trump would never resign - he’d never have cause to. No president’s ever been under more scrutiny.
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He doesn’t exactly shrink from the generation of controversy. I don’t feel the level of scrutiny is either unprecedented or unearned.
 
The tweet had some vile things in it, including someone smashing a statue of the Blessed Mother but Trump did not say anything vile in the tweet. He was shocked at it, as any rational person would be.

Vile : Morally depraved; ignoble or wicked, morally low; base; despicable

While his 11 year old recording was vile, I can’t say it fits the description of vile.
 
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