Do Catholics still support Trump

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MamasBoy33 said:
Would bake a cake for ba gay marriage?

You gotta be crazy to think I would Do that.

Say you you were a disciple for St. Paul and you were his right hand man. Say he was writing his 1st letter to Los Angeles( Corinthians) and he got to the 6 chapter and wrote " no homosexuals no idolaters etc… Will inherit the kingdom of God".

Would you tell St. Paul " hey i just Got a order to bake a cake for a gay marriage"

Would you tell St. Paul to help you bake it? Lol lol lol
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Sorry i put this on wrong thread
 
PetraG said:
Most people, Democrat or Republican, are pretty decent.
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It certainly leads one to wonder how our political process has become so infused with indecency.
MamasBoy33 said:
in this past election didn’t the church say voting for Hilary was danger.
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No, the Church cannot take sides in such matters. What the Church can do is publish the non-negotiables, and make the congregation aware of the facts. In order to maintain a separation of Church and State there cannot be a specific endorsement.
 
Why is our political discourse so low on decency? Our political discourse is anonymous and there are no political consequences for political figures making low personal attacks. No, the sad truth is that these work, just as advertising that seeks to make prospective buyers insecure or jealous work. Most peope are decent in person, but not at all vigilant about enforcing decency when they’re not dealing with those they aren’t talking with directly.
 
That is not an example of a third party vote. A third party vote would be asking another of my neighbors to do it for me. Why do I have to call that one specific neighbor? Or why don’t I call both of them?

I don’t need Republicans to care about abortion. I need a person to do that, and that person does not have to be Trump.
 
guanophore said:
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PetraG:
Most people, Democrat or Republican, are pretty decent.
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It certainly leads one to wonder how our political process has become so infused with indecency.
MamasBoy33 said:
in this past election didn’t the church say voting for Hilary was danger.
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No, the Church cannot take sides in such matters. What the Church can do is publish the non-negotiables, and make the congregation aware of the facts. In order to maintain a separation of Church and State there cannot be a specific endorsement.
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What the Church can and cannot do isn’t to be based upon what the State says it can or cannot do.

The separation of Church and State, in the US is a state policy, not Church policy. Your “cannot take sides on such matters” is more a prudential respect for that state policy by the Church since it is to the Church’s benefit that it not get specific – the repercussions in terms of taxation, remaining classed as a charitable rather than political organization, etc., have put that prudential position in place. This is not unlike the concordats that past pope’s have agreed to with, for example, Nazi or Fascist regimes to protect itself during those times.

My Kingdom is not of this world, does not imply separation of Church and State, necessarily. It does mean the Church and its living members, I.e.,.those that are alive in Christ are in a final sense ruled by Christ the King in their minds and hearts. That implies their affiliation with Christ through his Church is above every other consideration in all aspects of life.

I suspect the problem a lot of Catholics have with the present political climate is that they have conflated the Kingdom of God with globalist aspirations, setting their sights on the globalization of power and authority as the Embodiment of the Kingdom of God. The more we come together by being united by the bonds that tie us together as one, the more human society will take on the appearance of the Kingdom of Heaven. That is why many of these view nationalism or even patriotism as an impediment to the advent of the Kingdom.

I strongly suspect that is a big mistake.

The Catholic promoters of globalism need to reread Augustine’s City of God followed immediately by the Book of Revelation to be brought back to reality with regard to the current political climate. They are merely burying their own narcissism behind a facade of “humanity” as if merely being FOR the current iteration of “humanity” removes all stain of self-aggrandizement and egoism. As if merely being in a crowd makes everyone in the crowd less self-interested or narcissistic.
 
guanophore said:
No, the Church cannot take sides in such matters. What the Church can do is publish the non-negotiables, and make the congregation aware of the facts. In order to maintain a separation of Church and State there cannot be a specific endorsement.
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This is the Johnson Amendment, and it is unconstitutional. It is acknowledged by the IRS to be unconstitutional because it refuses to take churches to court that violate it. They try to get compliance through agreements. They know if they bring suit using it they will lose. They currently are not enforcing it.

The USCCB could say, “Vote for this candidate for President”, and it wouldn’t matter. They can say it. BUT, as we all know after the past how many decades, there is rarely a perfect candidate. The Church will never endorse a candidate, because, then, any flaws, sins, or scandals from that presidency would attach to the Church. They don’t want that.

They leave it to us. And different people make different decisions.
 
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PetraG said:
Our political discourse is anonymous and there are no political consequences for political figures making low personal attacks.
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In Trumps’ case, I disagree. He made plenty of personal attacks publicly during the campaign, name calling, accusations, and derogatory remarks. You are right, though, there were not political consequences for him. At one point he stated that he could


I found this statement appalling, but it turns out it was true. No amount of indecent behavior on his part seemed to impact his political success. This actually makes me more fearful of the majority who elected him. How is it that such a preponderance of Americans really feel this way about a candidate? To me it reflects the erosion of our morals as a nation.
 
guanophore said:
I found this statement appalling, but it turns out it was true. No amount of indecent behavior on his part seemed to impact his political success. This actually makes me more fearful of the majority who elected him. How is it that such a preponderance of Americans really feel this way about a candidate? To me it reflects the erosion of our morals as a nation.
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Remember, the majority did not elect him. People in the right places voted for him. Not the majority, not even a plurality.

A small portion of Americans voted for Trump. Trump is their fault.
 
PetraG said:
Most people, Democrat or Republican, are pretty decent.
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The real problem is that they’ve institutionalized idiotic stuff. These things should be illegal–none of it is ideological, it’s just common sense.
  1. kicking the can down the road–passing a law that only comes into effect years from now (ACA… tax reform parts kick in only in 2026!!! Please…) Make laws take effect within a reasonable time–90 days? No phasing in laws.
  2. Exempting Congress from its own laws. Why do they have a special health plan? Why are they exempt from paying their own penalties for sexual harassment?
  3. Refusing to allow amendments that can be voted on by the entire House or Senate. All bills must be publicly debated–not in private sessions. Anyone in the House or Senate can offer amendments to be voted on.
  4. Combining 100 totally different things in one bill…so if you want to build a bridge you have to vote in favor of abortion. One thing = one bill; separate issues so you can assign blame/credit clearly.
  5. Allowing corporations unlimited contributions and lobbying power. Put in small limits–$5,000 or so. Don’t allow loopholes so each department can contribute; one total amount for the entire corporation, no matter what their size
  6. Having no limits on campaign spending. Limit spending by the office–maybe $50,000 for Congress, $100,000 for Senate, $5 million for president. Quibble about amounts. Check out Canada.
  7. Allowing a revolving door, where a Congressman leaves Congress and then makes $1+ million a year lobbying Congress. Forbid any lobbying by Congressmen and Senators from lobbying–ever. Make it a 5-year wait for gov. officials / employees to lobby.
  8. Gerrymandering, which guarantees most districts vote R or D and it’s almost impossible to switch. Districts should be squares, or go by natural boundaries (rivers, etc.). Districts should be set up by a non-partisan commission that has no access to voting records of residents–or racial, etc. backgrounds.
  9. Discouraging/repressing voting–Voting should be obligatory, like in Australia. You don’t vote, you get fined. It’s your duty. Everyone votes. All the time.
  10. Allowing people to run for the same office until they die. Put in term limits. No career politicians.
Change those 10 things, and we have a different ball game. There are more, but that’s a good start. And yes, some might require Constitutional amendments. But the point is, our country is where it is because it allows these things. These shouldn’t be partisan issues, they’re simply common sense.
 
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Truth & Life RSV-CE
Ephesians 4:26-32
26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
27 and give no opportunity to the devil.
28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.
29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice,
32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
 
Truth & Life RSV-CE

Colossians 3:8

8 But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth.
 
Truth & Life RSV-CE

James 4:2-3

2 You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covetand cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war. You do not have, because you do not ask.
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.
 
Mamasboy33
Why are you posting these passages about anger? Do you think we are angry?

We are not
 
The way I understand the Catholic approach to the Government is that our “feelings” about the President or Governor or what not would only be relevant during elections. Apart from that, Christians are called upon to be good and faithful citizens and need to live peacefully and obediently under the Government we live under except when to do so would directly violate our conscience or faith, in which case we may take a personal stand to not be obedient regarding the violating rule handed down. We are never required to like Caesar. Only to serve him, except as noted above. So…whether I, or anyone else “supports” (which seems to be equated with liking), the President is unimportant until the next election. After each election, (and during the election cycle for that matter), we should simply be good citizens to whomever the people of our country have elected, and live out our faith the best we can under whatever system they bring. This is what I try to do. It is less stressful than becoming all political about it. I haven’t “supported” a President, (liked them), since the 80’s. But that hasn’t effected my citizenship, or belief in our country as a whole. I pray for them all.
 
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Truth & Life RSV-CE

1 Corinthians 16:13-14

13 Be watchful, stand firm in your faith, be courageous, be strong. †
14 Let all that you do be done in love.
 
Not angry at all. Frustrated, yes. Upset, yes. Fearful for the country? Yes

It’s hard to be against something and not be perceived as angry.
 
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