Do Catholics still support Trump

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Wasn’t their letter titled

Catholics in Political Life

Part of that publication?
 
I’m not sure if it’s wrong to request monies be put into the stock market on a certain day with a “we don’t care where it came from” sort of amnesty. For some reason I think it’s been done before, sorry I have so few details…
 
upant said:
It is necessary, therefore, to ensure that agents in charge of border control are properly trained. The situation of migrants, asylum seekers and refugees requires that they be guaranteed personal safety and access to basic services. For the sake of the fundamental dignity of every human person, we must strive to find alternative solutions to detention for those who enter a country without authorisation.

Erikaspirit16:
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Thank you @upant. So Pope Frances is saying we should not shoot people for trying to cross, allow them to die in the desert, or languish in detention for months or years when caught attempting to do so? Does this equate to “open borders”?
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
. That’s precisely what the USCCB said in their publication, and what I’ve been saying for a few weeks now. Perhaps it’s sunk in?
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I didn’t need a lesson, i was asking Paul. It seems.
I wasn’t asking any questions how to vote absolutely not. I know how to vote. Your perspective is totally wrong
 
upant said:
That’s precisely what the USCCB said in their publication, and what I’ve been saying for a few weeks now. Perhaps it’s sunk in?

as i asked Paul, is that how your local bishop reads it? who is he? i’d be interested in reading his opinion.
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“Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism, if the voter’s intent is to support that position. In such cases, a Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in grave evil.” (34)

“A candidate’s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. Yet a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.” (42)
 
PaulinVA said:
Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper relationship among moral goods
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Ok that clarifies more of your statement you had had earlier for me.
 
One is pro-life but also pro-starting a war with anyone and everyone. The other is pro-choice, but against war.

Who do you choose?

Please note that most pro-life candidates are not purely pro-life. They almost all carve out exceptions. Additionly, most also support the use of birth control and condoms.
 
sallybutler said:
ne is pro-life but also pro-starting a war with anyone and everyone. The other is pro-choice, but against war.

Who do you choose?
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God question.
Babies can’t defend themselves and are being sliced up as we speak.
Us adults could defend ourselves
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
Just look at the opinion polls.
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You mean those opinion polls that predicted a 97% chance of a win for Hillary? Yeah, those should be trusted. 😝
Perhaps now they’ve been recalibrated for accuracy rather than for persuasive influence? I would think there is a 97% chance they haven’t been, but feel free to pin your hopes where you want.
 
sallybutler said:
Please note that most pro-life candidates are not purely pro-life. They almost all carve out exceptions. Additionly, most also support the use of birth control and condoms
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Yeah that’s true. Us Catholics as Tim Staples (And Jesse Romero a must buy)said in his Debate against Calvary chapel that Catholics teach a very strict GOSPEL.
Remember also Trump became pro life after a friend’s story about a new born ( can’t remember the story well), but also Trump made ONLY some pledges about being pro-life and he is trying to live up to it. He is not full blown pro-life like a righteous Catholic
 
MamasBoy33 said:
40.png
sallybutler:
One is pro-life but also pro-starting a war with anyone and everyone. The other is pro-choice, but against war.

Who do you choose?
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God question.
Babies can’t defend themselves and are being sliced up as we speak.
Us adults could defend ourselves
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The issue is much more nuanced than you are allowing.

It did not raise to this point in the past election, but it was close. If you believe that Trump was a sociopathic, narcissistic, demagogue whose election could destabilize the world and create war, famine, or allow other dictators to oppress their people with impunity, your well-formed conscience might lead you to say that the President doesn’t have as much influence on abortion policy as on the stability of the world, and you might vote for Hillary, not because she is pro-choice, but because she would be the over best pick for the country and the world.

I did not vote that way, but I could defend someone who did in this context.

The election of a prochoice President does not all of a sudden cause more abortions. People don’t seem to get that.
 
guanophore said:
Thank you @upant. So Pope Frances is saying we should not shoot people for trying to cross, allow them to die in the desert, or languish in detention for months or years when caught attempting to do so? Does this equate to “open borders”?
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No, but neither does taking definitive steps to set immigration policy to where it is clear for everyone at risk. That way they are fully informed about the decisions they themselves make as to whether they are willing to die in a desert or languish in prison., etc. Treating others as if they have no freedom to choose or responsibility for their choices is not Christian either. Is simply reduces human beings to pawns in a political game and nothing more than mindless entities.

We never hear anything about the responsibility of illegal immigrants to abide by the laws that make them illegal in the first place. If you really want open borders and the unfettered movement of peoples then argue for that, but let’s not mix charity with complete abandonment of principles. If your principle is “I don’t care where and when people move,” then at least own it, and bear the consequences for what comes about. This continual fudging of rules is nonsense.
 
Depends on how you look at it. I voted for Rubio but could have easily voted for Cruz or Kasich if it meant keeping Trump out. But the primaries aren’t designed that way.
 
PaulinVA said:
The election of a prochoice President does not all of a sudden cause more abortions. People don’t seem to get that.
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I agree with you but and a huge BUT as stated in the homily of Father John that Hillary was EXPANDING the pro choice movement.
Trump said " I’m just going to keep itb like it is for now" right? So you remember that? I do
But Hillary was EXPANDING.
Your not contesting me on this issue your contesting the Priest and his homily
 
Btw everyone Happy Sunday to all, maywe all be on time for service as pope Francis said " we should be calculating the clock to see how many minutes we can be late to church" .
Its the Lord’s Day.
 
MamasBoy33 said:
I agree with you but and a huge BUT as stated in the homily of Father John that Hillary was EXPANDING the pro choice movement.

Trump said " I’m just going to keep itb like it is for now" right? So you remember that? I do

But Hillary was EXPANDING.
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You are not listening to me. EXPANDING what? EXPENDING a movement? Big Deal.
MamasBoy33 said:
Your not contesting me on this issue your contesting the Priest and his homily
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I most certainly am. His homily is overblown and prone to overwrought hyperbole. Comparing being against Affirmative Action with wanting to kill black people? Come on. That is intellectually dishonest.

Yes, the Church, and I, are against abortion. Absolutely. BUT, his voting advice is against the advice given by the USCCB and against common sense.
 
PaulinVA said:
Yes, the Church, and I, are against abortion. Absolutely. BUT, his voting advice is against the advice given by the USCCB and against common sense.
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Wow, so your saying he should be disciplined for that homily?
 
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