Do Protestants Really Hate Catholicism?

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God bless you too.
Yes, I know for certain I am going to heaven because Jesus died for my sins too .
So then you would say that you cannot lose your salvation then? I know that OSAS/Eternal security is generally a common belief of most Baptists.

If you hold that belief, how do you understand Revelation 3:5?
And I know by the fruits the Spirit is working in me and the passionate love for the Truth he has kindled in my heart that I am His and "no one will snatch me from his hands ".
And this in no way conflicts with what a faithful Catholic would be able to affirm. Yet this does not (as has been pointed out to Baptists many times in my experience) preclude the person himself from abandoning Our Lord and losing their salvation.

Hebrews 6:4-8 speaks to this as does 2nd Timothy 12 & 13. Can you explain how these do not contradict your beliefs?
I have repented and I have believed , my repentance and my belief have given me eternal life ; eternal life being eternal , I cannot lose it by mortal sin at the last minute before I die
.So then you’re saying that you do not believe what Revelation 3:5 says about those who fail to persevere? I think that 1st John 5:16 & 17 contradict that.

I am curious to see your responses, and you can PM them to me if you don’t want to move the discussion farther off topic.
 
Jerry

For your last entry, I am impressed. I entirely agree with you.
Though Roman Catholic Church and Protestants have a big different on the issue of salvation, there is no hatred or dislike between us
What counts most in my humble view, love and fear God at the most utmost principle we must follow through.

Any comments or corrections? I am happy to learn more from you.

wlychan64
 
Hello wlychan
Though Roman Catholic Church and Protestants have a big different on the issue of salvation
It seems to me that Protestants have big differences on the issue of salvation amongst themselves. So you really can’t hold it against Catholics if there is a difference.

God bless you
 
And for your information , Baptists are not Protestants are per the Reformation . We can trace our line directly from the earliest Church .
Can you? Could you give us a summary of this lineage and provide credible sources? Thanks.

And for the “100% assurance” crowd:

I gotta tell ya, I’m still trying to wrap my arms around this evangelical addictiveness to absolute assurance of salvation. So I have a moral assurance…so what?? Why aren’t you all satisfied with that answer?? What difference does it really make to you that I don’t share in your extreme “confidence” that if you die tonight, you’ll be with the Lord, and I tell you that I will be too, so long as I die in a state of grace. I’m still following Christ, for crying out loud! So what in the world does it matter to YOU (in your 100% assurance) that I am working my salvation out, through Christ?? I get the fact that you feel like you’re “closer” to our Lord than I am…I get it. You have a personal relationship with Jesus, and I don’t. Right. I gotcha. Nevermind that I DO have this relationship, but if I tell you that it is by God’s grace that I may be saved, that I have a moral assurance of it, through the atoning death of our Lord…why is this not good enough for you (evangelicals as a whole)? Seems to me we Catholics should be the ones going around asking people if they think they’re working out their salvation…because it seems to me that if WE’RE wrong about it, God will still be pleased despite our lack of 100% confidence…but if YOU’RE wrong about it, there’s a good chance you won’t even SEE God to figure out if He’s pleased about it. You’ll just figure it out by virtue of your final destination. So again, why all the “if you die tonight” questions??

God Bless
 
I will do it tomorrow unless an emergency arises .
I have only been on this forum 24 hours and I am already getting tired of it .
Well you haven’t “lived” here like we do and you’ll have to forgive some of my brothers and sisters for their posting styles because not everyone we have dealt with is as decent a you have been so far.
Too much throwing around of “I know, you know” and not enough real concerns for the souls of the people reading the posts . Except for you , of course . You appear to be sincere .
All religious discussions should be motivated by the desire to see others come to Christ (IMO). I also cannot presume to know the level of anyone else’s concerns for the souls of the people reading the posts. In fact, most of my posts are aimed at them. I trust and pray that the Holy Spirit will do His work in drawing all men to Jesus for salvation.
And Nancy .
Nancy don’t count… she’s a meaney. J/K Nancy, I hope you know that. 🙂
 
:)Dear Jerry Marino,My name is Nancy and I am not any denomination but I can tell you this All my family is Catholic and I was a Catholic (might still be after confession) I"m not quite there yet but I can say these people do believe in Christ and are the most dedicated people I have ever met except for my mother and others in the family.They give to the poor and help feed others,they put up with all them that come here to give them a bad time,and when your new they dont know your purpose of why your visiting them and they do an excellent job defending their religion with scripture and history,and Ive met such nice loving sometimes hard headed but sweet people,that grow where they are planted.I am proud of knowing these people and if you stick around you might learn that correction comes to the shepards from God and we are to follow what God says,do what they say but dont do what they do.I believe he ment that for everyone for all have fallen short of the Glory of God for if we say we have not sinned then we call the Lord a lier and his death would have been in vain.There has been alot said about the Catholics and alot of misconseptions on what they believe in.They are real Christions and would die for Christ and the church.There are good and bad in everyone of us,but the real children of God would love their neighbor as themselves pray for each other,teach heal cast out evil spirits baptize,and go into all the world like Christ said and the Catholics do just that.I like people with morals,that is what is missing in this world,deep faith sacrifice,keeping the commandments of God Jesus came not to change one tittle of the law,but to forfill it.Stick around,and you will see all I have told you is true in Jesus name Love of Christ N;)ancy
 
So then you would say that you cannot lose your salvation then? I know that OSAS/Eternal security is generally a common belief of most Baptists.

If you hold that belief, how do you understand Revelation 3:5?
And this in no way conflicts with what a faithful Catholic would be able to affirm. Yet this does not (as has been pointed out to Baptists many times in my experience) preclude the person himself from abandoning Our Lord and losing their salvation.

Hebrews 6:4-8 speaks to this as does 2nd Timothy 12 & 13. Can you explain how these do not contradict your beliefs?So then you’re saying that you do not believe what Revelation 3:5 says about those who fail to persevere? I think that 1st John 5:16 & 17 contradict that.

I am curious to see your responses, and you can PM them to me if you don’t want to move the discussion farther off topic.
Only this : 1 John, 2:16

They went out from us, but they were not of us ; for if they had been of us , they would no doubt have continued with us ; but they went out , that they may be made manifest that they were not all of us .

Those who do not persevere to the end are those who “were not of us” to begin with .
 
Only this : 1 John, 2:16

They went out from us, but they were not of us ; for if they had been of us , they would no doubt have continued with us ; but they went out , that they may be made manifest that they were not all of us .

Those who do not persevere to the end are those who “were not of us” to begin with .
Would they not have told us (when they were of you) that they were saved and were sure of their salvation? Would they not have talked, like you, about this assurance of theirs?

So how do you know that you are not one of these who will not preserve to the end?

God bless
 
i have assurance of my salvation and as for the differences of salvation there is only one way, and i will emphasize ONE WAY! Jesus Christ! on the topic of assurance though since you say there is no way of being sure one is save, i will pose this question: if anyone here is not sure of their salvation why are you going to church, whether catholic or protestant? please enlighten me.
 
Only this : 1 John, 2:16

They went out from us, but they were not of us ; for if they had been of us , they would no doubt have continued with us ; but they went out , that they may be made manifest that they were not all of us .

Those who do not persevere to the end are those who “were not of us” to begin with .
I understand that and am well acquainted with this as one of the usual citation in defense of OSAS, but I would simply point out that Revelation 3:5 clearly says that the names blotted out of the Book of life were written in it (See Philippians 4:3) and that meant that they had eternal life, and by not persevering they lost it.

BTW, I thought you were outta here for the night? 🙂 I can’t be that charming an opponent that you forgo the wisdom of sleep to hang in here with me can I?😉

I appreciate your willingness to discuss/debate this.
 
Would they not have told us (when they were of you) that they were saved and were sure of their salvation? Would they not have talked, like you, about this assurance of theirs?

So how do you know that you are not one of these who will not preserve to the end?

God bless
Probably for some time, I agree, it would have appeared to us that they were of us ; but this judgement is made between the soul and God .
I would assume they were not really sincere in the face of God, and they would have known they were only pretending even if we did not before they left . It must be hard to play a game of pretend for a whole life .

Some leave for a while and they come back when they realize what they are doing after they have been submitted to the discipline of the Church . . Some never come back . These are the ones John is talking about .

There are two tracks followed by those who know in their hearts they are saved , like the two tracks of a train :
  1. doctrinal purity according to the Word of God, not the word of men
  2. fruits of the Spirit , fruits not works , so that you do not boast .
If you are on the right track , may God keep you on it .
I absolutely do not believe that you have to be a Baptist to be saved . There are both saved and unsaved people sitting in every Christian church , including the Catholic church , of course .

But Jesus said ; “When the Son of Man comes back , will he still find Faith on the earth ?” From this I understand that he was not expecting over two billions Catholics and protestants united together in some Final Master Chuch to welcome his arrival :
“Hard is the path , and narrow is the gate that leads to the Kingdom , and few are those who find it . Broad is the road and large is the gate that leads to perdition and many are those who follow it .” This leads me to believe that he was not expecting an Obama-style welcoming committee , only a carefully preserved remnant ; but certainly not only Baptists !!! even if I am a Baptist myself !!!
 
:)Dear Jerry Marino,My name is Nancy and I am not any denomination but I can tell you this All my family is Catholic and I was a Catholic (might still be after confession) I"m not quite there yet but I can say these people do believe in Christ and are the most dedicated people I have ever met except for my mother and others in the family.They give to the poor and help feed others,they put up with all them that come here to give them a bad time,and when your new they dont know your purpose of why your visiting them and they do an excellent job defending their religion with scripture and history,and Ive met such nice loving sometimes hard headed but sweet people,that grow where they are planted.I am proud of knowing these people and if you stick around you might learn that correction comes to the shepards from God and we are to follow what God says,do what they say but dont do what they do.I believe he ment that for everyone for all have fallen short of the Glory of God for if we say we have not sinned then we call the Lord a lier and his death would have been in vain.There has been alot said about the Catholics and alot of misconseptions on what they believe in.They are real Christions and would die for Christ and the church.There are good and bad in everyone of us,but the real children of God would love their neighbor as themselves pray for each other,teach heal cast out evil spirits baptize,and go into all the world like Christ said and the Catholics do just that.I like people with morals,that is what is missing in this world,deep faith sacrifice,keeping the commandments of God Jesus came not to change one tittle of the law,but to forfill it.Stick around,and you will see all I have told you is true in Jesus name Love of Christ N;)ancy
We need somone like Nancy that to love our neighbours as this is the wish of Our Lord.
 
Hello wlychan

It seems to me that Protestants have big differences on the issue of salvation amongst themselves. So you really can’t hold it against Catholics if there is a difference.

God bless you
Dear Greeter,

I do not hold against any Catholic finding a substantial different views on Salvation with those from the Protestant Church. If it is true, it is also the right time to let this forum to see how the differences could be resolved. I have learnt a lot from it so far.

I regret that I cannot contribute much.

wlychan64
 
i have assurance of my salvation and as for the differences of salvation there is only one way, and i will emphasize ONE WAY! Jesus Christ! on the topic of assurance though since you say there is no way of being sure one is save, i will pose this question: if anyone here is not sure of their salvation why are you going to church, whether catholic or protestant? please enlighten me.
By the Grace of God.

God bless you
 
Dear Greeter,

I regret that I cannot contribute much.

wlychan64
No worries wlychan 😉

I only ask you to consider that Protestants have differing views on salvation and that it is not necessarily a Catholic vs Protestant situation.

God bless you and welcome to the forums.
 
There are both saved and unsaved people sitting in every Christian church , including the Catholic church , of course .
Great answer.

I would also say that there are people being saved in these churches. (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12)

God bless you
 
Dear Greeter,

What is your view for me to attend the mass every Sunday?

Honestly, I am not a Catholic but I have been enjoying the worship by way of the mass in a nearby Roman Catholic Church (RCC). I worry that my presence may deprive a seat from a member of the RCC and may upset the priests of the church.

Could you enlightening me please? Sorry if you may find the question rather silly.

wlychan64
 
Dear Greeter,

What is your view for me to attend the mass every Sunday?

Honestly, I am not a Catholic but I have been enjoying the worship by way of the mass in a nearby Roman Catholic Church (RCC). I worry that my presence may deprive a seat from a member of the RCC and may upset the priests of the church.

Could you enlightening me please? Sorry if you may find the question rather silly.

wlychan64
I would encourage you to attend Mass. My wife (who was a non-denominational Christian) and I attended Mass every Sunday prior to us entering the Church together.

God bless
 
hey militant, i’ll be your huckleberry.

on the record, i don’t hate catholics. i’d say about 80% of my family if not more are catholic so how could i hate my beloved family, uncles, aunts, cousins etc.

Revelation 3:1-6

1 "To the angel of the church in Sardis, write this: " 'The one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says this: "I know your works, that you have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

2 Be watchful and strengthen what is left, which is going to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.

3 Remember then how you accepted and heard; keep it, and repent. If you are not watchful, I will come like a thief, and you will never know at what hour I will come upon you.

4 However, you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; they will walk with me dressed in white, because they are worthy.

5 "The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels.

6 “Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

i put the whole context, so that all who read will know exactly what is being said, and as for your quotation of verse 5, it doesn’t seem to be the same as it is written here in bold.

this is what you stated: (but I would simply point out that Revelation 3:5 clearly says that the names blotted out of the Book of life were written in it). that is not true as you read above in bold letters is verse 5 of revelation. what it clearly says is that ‘the victor will thus be dressed in white, and i will never erase his name from the book of life’. it does not say he will blot out any names on the contrary he will never blot out their names. now who are these victors? going back one verse (4), a few people who have not soiled their garments and are worthy.

so who are the people that won’t be found in the book of life?

in verse 1 in this letter to the sardis, God is not giving good news, in fact he is letting them know with warning of their deeds and reputation of being alive but are dead.

in verse 2 he the warning to wake up! the things that are still good, that still have a little bit of life to strengthen them cause he has not found their works good in the sight of God.

in verse 3 he reminds them of what the have received and heard (the gospel) and to obey it and repent, then the warning of staying asleep and will come in like a thief without notice.

these people who have not repented and trusted in the gospel of Jesus Christ, are the ones whose names will not be found. it does not say that the will blotted out (erased) cause their names are not their to begin with.

*The letter to Sardis does not praise the community but admonishes its members to watchfulness, mutual support, and repentance (Rev 3:2-3). The few who have remained pure and faithful will share Christ’s victory and will be inscribed in the book of life (Rev 3:4-5).

2 [1] Sardis: this city, located ca. thirty miles southeast of Thyatira, was once the capital of Lydia, known for its wealth at the time of Croesus (6th century B.C.). Its citadel, reputed to be unassailable, was captured by surprise, first by Cyrus and later by Antiochus. The church is therefore warned to be on guard.

3 [5] In white: white is a sign of victory and joy as well as resurrection; see the note on Rev 2:17. The book of life: the roll in which the names of the redeemed are kept; cf Rev 13:8; 17:8; 20:12, 15; 21:27; Philippians 4:3; Daniel 12:1. They will be acknowledged by Christ in heaven; cf Matthew 10:32.*

the above commentary is not of mine but taken from USCCB-NAB.

so my friend take verse 6 into consideration for faith comes by hearing. remember i don’t hate you, i love you and my intent is to speak of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

God bless
 
Would our religioius belief and faith strengthened by way of arguing on the interpretations of the bible?

Are we just copying counsel’s skills of advocacy in court and bring them into Church?

Should we pray harder to have the help of holy spirit? A true wisdom for the sake of understanding HIS words rather than to win an argument?

I hope my comments are not offensive.

wlychan64
 
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