C
CreosMary
Guest
YES!!
- Status
W
wcknight
Guest
IF the Church says it is true, I believe it.
wc
wc
J
John_19_59
Guest
The Church used to teach this and I believe it…
From The Catechism of Pius X.
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/pius/pcomm01.htm
**15 Q: What else does the First Commandment forbid? **
A: The First Commandment also forbids all dealings with the devil, and all association with anti-Christian sects.
So is Islam anti-Christian?
I think you know the answer to that.
Now the Church since 1965 teaches the opposite to The Catechism of Pius X.
Bit of a conundrum I would say.
A better question than the thread title would be “does a Catholic living under the reign of Pius X believe the same things as a Catholic under John Paul II”?
Quite clearly the answer is no.
From The Catechism of Pius X.
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/pius/pcomm01.htm
**15 Q: What else does the First Commandment forbid? **
A: The First Commandment also forbids all dealings with the devil, and all association with anti-Christian sects.
So is Islam anti-Christian?
I think you know the answer to that.
Now the Church since 1965 teaches the opposite to The Catechism of Pius X.
Bit of a conundrum I would say.
A better question than the thread title would be “does a Catholic living under the reign of Pius X believe the same things as a Catholic under John Paul II”?
Quite clearly the answer is no.
R
reen12
Guest
There is something to be said for the human
ability to live with a degree of ambiguity The less
an individual can tolerate ambiguity, the more
critical the desire for an absolute, infallible authority,
I conclude.
There is a distinct difference in saying: I don’t
know what to do in this situation and then consulting
a respected authority [a Catholic moral theologian
in good standing with the Church; a learned rabbinic
authority, if Jewish] and then coming to a conclusion
as to what course of action to take in a given situation.
[an “informed” conscience] than in saying: The
Church teaches it, I believe it, and that ends the
matter.
reen12
I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.
ability to live with a degree of ambiguity The less
an individual can tolerate ambiguity, the more
critical the desire for an absolute, infallible authority,
I conclude.
There is a distinct difference in saying: I don’t
know what to do in this situation and then consulting
a respected authority [a Catholic moral theologian
in good standing with the Church; a learned rabbinic
authority, if Jewish] and then coming to a conclusion
as to what course of action to take in a given situation.
[an “informed” conscience] than in saying: The
Church teaches it, I believe it, and that ends the
matter.
reen12
I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.
G
Genesis315
Guest
You only need to be open minded when you are searching for the Truth. One you have it, being open minded is stupid.
As for Catholics who think it’s ok to not believe even one thing the Church teaches, check out this article:
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0105fea1.asp
R
reen12
Guest
Hi, Genesis 315,
Well, I read half of the article you referrenced.
Here’s my conclusion: Either I accept the teachings
and teaching authority of the Church, or I don’t.
Since I don’t, I no longer represent myself as a
Roman Catholic.
What gets me is those individuals who state that
they are Roman Catholics, but dissent from Church
teachings. I just don’t get* that* position at all.
Best wishes,
reen12
I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.
Well, I read half of the article you referrenced.
Here’s my conclusion: Either I accept the teachings
and teaching authority of the Church, or I don’t.
Since I don’t, I no longer represent myself as a
Roman Catholic.
What gets me is those individuals who state that
they are Roman Catholics, but dissent from Church
teachings. I just don’t get* that* position at all.
Best wishes,
reen12
I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.
G
Genesis315
Guest
I wasn’t directing that link specifically at you. I’ve read your posts so I’m familiar with your backgound. Using terms like conservative and liberal to describe Catholics is just a pet peeve of mine. I don’t think many realize what it actually entails to reject something that the Magesterium says is supposed to be held by all the faithful. I hope you come home at the end of your journey
God bless.
R
reen12
Guest
Hi, Genesis 315,
I thought that your article reference was for all readers
of the thread, so I didn’t for a moment think that it
specifically directed at me.
Just wanted you to know that I had looked at half
of it, and give my reflections on same.
Hope you find it of interest that using the terms
conservative and liberal also drive me up the wall,
when discussing where Catholics stand. Don’t you
think that heterodox and orthodox more describe
the reality?
As I said, what I* don’t* get is those whose position
is heterodox, insisting that they are still in communion
with the Catholic Church.
And what am I supposed to do? If I go before God
and He says: Maureen, did you really believe all
that the Church teaches? He already knows the
answer to the question.
I may be in error and I entrust myself
to the hands of a merciful God.
I just don’t believe it anymore, Genesis 315.
reen12
I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.
I thought that your article reference was for all readers
of the thread, so I didn’t for a moment think that it
specifically directed at me.
Just wanted you to know that I had looked at half
of it, and give my reflections on same.
Hope you find it of interest that using the terms
conservative and liberal also drive me up the wall,
when discussing where Catholics stand. Don’t you
think that heterodox and orthodox more describe
the reality?
As I said, what I* don’t* get is those whose position
is heterodox, insisting that they are still in communion
with the Catholic Church.
And what am I supposed to do? If I go before God
and He says: Maureen, did you really believe all
that the Church teaches? He already knows the
answer to the question.
I may be in error and I entrust myself
to the hands of a merciful God.
I just don’t believe it anymore, Genesis 315.
reen12
I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.
B
Binney
Guest
Could you please just hold that thought for awhile? When I finish reading what they have to teach, I will let you know.
G
Gratias_Grace
Guest
The Church does NOT promise the muslems a life for all etrnity. The Church only holds the opportunity open for that: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too **may achieve ** eternal salvation.(CCC 847)
CCC 848 tells us that " — the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
Strong believing moslems born into a moslem family have not chosen their family by themselves. But still they are created and loved by God. They haven’t learned that Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus says: “I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd” (John 10:16) .
We can’t know exactly how to interpret this verse of the Bible. God loves everybody and gave us a free will. A person that has not been thaugth about Christ cannot chose Him. But with his/her will he/she is able to love God and to follow the moral codes he/she has been thaught.
May be they are able to listen to Jesus’ voice in the moment they die and then say yes or no to his invitation.
About false Gods: The unike with the God of the jews in OT was that he was ONE and that he was **the Creator ** of man. The pagans had many Gods, one for fertility , one for rain, one for … and so on. The jews had to learn to worship only ONE God (our God). The muslems worship only ONE God; they dont have many. They believe that the ONLY God has created the world; - they believe in eternity. They believe that God existed before creation and that He exists for ever.
To live as a Christian is to place God in the center, not false gods like money, big cars, -boats and so on. People can call themselves catholic as much as they want to, but if they have placed something else in Gods place, they worship false gods.
I do see your point that the moslem religion (in some way) must be mixed with the devil. Only the devil can come after the resurrection and denie Christ. (And I do think that the devil “owns” many moslems, ex. Bin Laden). But good moslems of to day whom in a genuine way try to worship God and live a good moral life, can’t be blamed for the faults of Mohammed.
Because the Church belives in a mercyful God who loves **all ** his children and want them all to be with him for all etrnnity!
The Church do not say that it’s the same whatever religion we confess! It only believes that God is so much bigger and so great that we with our human intelligence can’t understand it all.
Islam can in the wrong hands be a dangerous religion used for evil purpose (terror). . There is no reason to close our eyes for the possibility to use Islam in a very evil way, but that is not what is in question here. The question is if good moselems can be saved?
In CCC 841 the Church proclams that perhaps the moslems too can enter eternity, and in CCC 847 the Church proclams some conditions: 1) through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, — 2) seek God with a sincere heart, and 3) moved by grace.
Only God can move a person by grace!
G.Grace
H
Huiou_Theou
Guest
Lord, grant what you command and command what you will.
Belief leads to understanding, and understanding to greater belief.
I believe all that I have correctly heard from the teaching of the Catholic Church. I have not heard everything correctly, but am trying to listen better.
Belief leads to understanding, and understanding to greater belief.
I believe all that I have correctly heard from the teaching of the Catholic Church. I have not heard everything correctly, but am trying to listen better.
Y
YinYangMom
Guest
How can one not believe in the Truth? Of course I believe that what the Church teaches is the Truth.
Do I understand everything the Catholic Church teaches? No.
If I don’t understand it I can’t very well ‘believe’ it, fully. I can trust that it is the truth and continue to pray for me to ‘get it’ with the grace of God.
Do I accept everything the Catholic Church teaches? I haven’t gotten through ‘everything’ yet so I can’t answer that, and accepting comes with understanding and believing.
Do I understand everything the Catholic Church teaches? No.
If I don’t understand it I can’t very well ‘believe’ it, fully. I can trust that it is the truth and continue to pray for me to ‘get it’ with the grace of God.
Do I accept everything the Catholic Church teaches? I haven’t gotten through ‘everything’ yet so I can’t answer that, and accepting comes with understanding and believing.
R
ruzz
Guest
I don’t think you can take Catholicism a la carte.
Kind of like being a little bit pregnant.
It’s all or nothing isn’t it?
.
Kind of like being a little bit pregnant.
It’s all or nothing isn’t it?
.
A
Almost_Catholic
Guest
I answered that last item given, “not listed” because although I am not a Catholic (yet) my difficulty lies in the doctrine of justification by faith…and the ability to lose one’s faith through a mortal sin. Generally I agree, but the idea that if I miss mass and die before getting absolution is hard to swallow. But as I said, that is splitting fine hairs.
So I should probably simply have voted, YES.
So I should probably simply have voted, YES.
M
mkamoski
Guest
S–
It is fine to hear that you are convert.
Please note that the Church, as guided by the Holy Spirit, is perfect.
It is right that one ought to follow all such guidance, because it is from God.
It is the mystical Body of Christ.
As such, I do believe in everything that the Church teaches.
(That said, it is clear that humans do make mistakes; so, it is always best to check the Catechism and, of course, pray.)
May the peace of Christ, Lord and Saviour, be with you always.
–Mark
S
scylla
Guest
I believe in everything the Church teaches.
I don’t believe in everything people -say- the Church teaches.
You really need to check it out if it sounds funny, the Church has good reasons for what it teaches, and everthing makes sense if you look into it. Some people do come up with crazy ideas of what the Church teaches, even within the Church and that is what you need to look out for.
I don’t believe in everything people -say- the Church teaches.
You really need to check it out if it sounds funny, the Church has good reasons for what it teaches, and everthing makes sense if you look into it. Some people do come up with crazy ideas of what the Church teaches, even within the Church and that is what you need to look out for.
J
John_19_59
Guest
*About false Gods: The unike with the God of the jews in OT was that he was ONE and that he was **the Creator *of man. The pagans had many Gods, one for fertility , one for rain, one for … and so on. The jews had to learn to worship only ONE God (our God). The muslems worship only ONE God; they dont have many. They believe that the ONLY God has created the world; - they believe in eternity. They believe that God existed before creation and that He exists for ever.
Lumen Gentium and the CCC both say that the Muslems worship the same One God as us. It’s there in black and white. Pope John Paul has said the same over and over and over again.
The God of the OT and God in the NT has explicit interactions with man.
Muslims will tell you the “God” of Islam also has **explicit **interactions with man. They will tell you that he sent his angel Gabriel to Mohammed to dictate his word. His word that **explicitly **denies Jesus Christ as God and redeemer of man. That explicitly rules out that that “God” is the one God that we worship unless you believe the One God contradicts himself.
What are we to make of that?
a) Mohammed was deceived by another being.
b) Mohammed invented it all.
Either way it’s not true and the “One God” proclaimed by him is not the One God that we know. How could it be!
How could it be!!!
In the case of a)
if an entity really spoke to Mohammed, then it’s claiming to the One God does not automatically make it the One God. Ever heard of lies? The devil is the father of lies and the chief Christ denier.
In the case of b)
I think we have seen exactly the same process at work with Joseph Smith and his mormon church. The comparisons are very interesting. I recommend “No Man Knows my History” by Fawn Brodie.
Whatever, this is a novel Catholic teaching introduced only since 1965 and in opposition to previous Church teaching about other religions.
I believe because of this one single defective teaching then the rest of Vatican II and the CCC has to be viewed with suspicion.
There was nothing wrong with Catholic truth before 1965, we are safer to stick to that until these matters are resolved by a later dogmatic council.
Pray for the Pope. May God have mercy on him.
Lumen Gentium and the CCC both say that the Muslems worship the same One God as us. It’s there in black and white. Pope John Paul has said the same over and over and over again.
The God of the OT and God in the NT has explicit interactions with man.
Muslims will tell you the “God” of Islam also has **explicit **interactions with man. They will tell you that he sent his angel Gabriel to Mohammed to dictate his word. His word that **explicitly **denies Jesus Christ as God and redeemer of man. That explicitly rules out that that “God” is the one God that we worship unless you believe the One God contradicts himself.
What are we to make of that?
a) Mohammed was deceived by another being.
b) Mohammed invented it all.
Either way it’s not true and the “One God” proclaimed by him is not the One God that we know. How could it be!
How could it be!!!
In the case of a)
if an entity really spoke to Mohammed, then it’s claiming to the One God does not automatically make it the One God. Ever heard of lies? The devil is the father of lies and the chief Christ denier.
In the case of b)
I think we have seen exactly the same process at work with Joseph Smith and his mormon church. The comparisons are very interesting. I recommend “No Man Knows my History” by Fawn Brodie.
Whatever, this is a novel Catholic teaching introduced only since 1965 and in opposition to previous Church teaching about other religions.
I believe because of this one single defective teaching then the rest of Vatican II and the CCC has to be viewed with suspicion.
There was nothing wrong with Catholic truth before 1965, we are safer to stick to that until these matters are resolved by a later dogmatic council.
Pray for the Pope. May God have mercy on him.
C
c3dlc
Guest
PROBLEM: offensive link
ACTION: link deleted
ACTION: link deleted
G
gez722
Guest
I believe in everything the Catholic Church teaches, but I’m constantly encountering Catholics who question things such as Confession, artificial birth control, etc. Does anyone know if it’s mentioned anywhere in the Catechism that Catholics must believe everything taught by the Church. It seems rather obvious to me, but I would like to find it written so I can point it out to those who are questioning it.
God Bless,
Gary
God Bless,
Gary
P
PeterC
Guest
ARTICLE 9
**“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH” **
* Paragraph 5. The Communion of Saints
946 After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"479 The communion of saints is the Church.
947 "Since all the faithful form one body, the good of each is communicated to the others. . . . We must therefore believe that there exists a communion of goods in the Church. But the most important member is Christ, since he is the head. . . . Therefore, the riches of Christ are communicated to all the members, through the sacraments."480 "As this Church is governed by one and the same Spirit, all the goods she has received necessarily become a common fund."481
948 The term “communion of saints” therefore has two closely linked meanings: communion in holy things (sancta)" and “among holy persons (sancti).”
Sancta sanctis! (“God’s holy gifts for God’s holy people”) is proclaimed by the celebrant in most Eastern liturgies during the elevation of the holy Gifts before the distribution of communion. The faithful (sancti) are fed by Christ’s holy body and blood (sancta) to grow in the communion of the Holy Spirit (koinonia) and to communicate it to the world.
**“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH” **
* Paragraph 5. The Communion of Saints
946 After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"479 The communion of saints is the Church.
947 "Since all the faithful form one body, the good of each is communicated to the others. . . . We must therefore believe that there exists a communion of goods in the Church. But the most important member is Christ, since he is the head. . . . Therefore, the riches of Christ are communicated to all the members, through the sacraments."480 "As this Church is governed by one and the same Spirit, all the goods she has received necessarily become a common fund."481
948 The term “communion of saints” therefore has two closely linked meanings: communion in holy things (sancta)" and “among holy persons (sancti).”
Sancta sanctis! (“God’s holy gifts for God’s holy people”) is proclaimed by the celebrant in most Eastern liturgies during the elevation of the holy Gifts before the distribution of communion. The faithful (sancti) are fed by Christ’s holy body and blood (sancta) to grow in the communion of the Holy Spirit (koinonia) and to communicate it to the world.
- Status