Do you have an ecumenical spirit?

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christofirst said:
I love how you put that, and I agree in theory. We all tend to fall somewhere in the traditional/conservative-progressive/liberal spectrum. I still think the labels help to define the situation as it really is. Cardinal Raymond Burke and Cardinal Walter Kasper, for instance, are both respected leaders in the Church, but they certainly hold different points of view. Is one of them right and the other wrong? Many would say so. I am glad our Church is large enough for the both of them!
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@christofirst , regarding the traditional/conservative-progressive/liberal labels .

Before becoming acquainted with American Catholicism , mainly through EWTN and predominantly American Catholic forums , the term “Liberal Catholics” was not part of my vocabulary .

It is a label which belongs to politics , and Catholics should not be using it as a term to attack other Catholics . Leave it with the politicians where it belongs . Because of the negative connotations associated with the adjective “Liberal” , it should ditched as part of our Catholic conversations on issues related to Catholicism .

For a Catholic not to be traditional would be theological nonsense . It is of the very essence of Catholicism to be traditional . All that I am and have as a Catholic has come to me by way of tradition . It can’t be otherwise .

The Fathers of the Second Council of the Vatican in Dei Verbum taught , “Sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture form one sacred deposit of the word of God, committed to the Church. Holding fast to this deposit the entire holy people united with their shepherds remain always steadfast in the teaching of the Apostles, in the common life, in the breaking of the bread and in prayers , so that holding to, practicing and professing the heritage of the faith, it becomes on the part of the bishops and faithful a single common effort.”

It speaks of the ENTIRE people of God holding fast to this Tradition . And the entire people of God are called upon to hold fast to the ENTIRE deposit of faith .

It’s for ALL Catholics to take to heart ALL the deposit of faith . No more pick and mix . And both groups do it , but they oughtn’t . And we oughtn’t put up with the term “Traditional Catholic” unless it embraces all Catholics who by their nature can’t be other than traditional .

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Cruciferi said:
What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means | Catholic Answers
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Thanks for sharing this link, taken from the link…
When speaking of salvation, Jesus offered more details than just his words quoted above. For example, consider these three verses:
•He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
•nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
•[H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively.
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I understand the reasoning behind these Gospel passages. But why didn’t they include the greatest commandments as well as these three ways to inherit eternal life?

Jesus clearly answers the lawyer in the parable of the Good Samaritan, as to what he must do to inherit salvation.

There is also Mathew 25, The sheep and the goats, the righteous will also be recognised by their deeds.
 
Fine for any non-Catholic to attend such events.
However attendance at Sunday services of Protestant churches or “ecumenical” events held by same in no way satisfies the Catholic’s Sunday obligation. I’m not sure about attending a Saturday Vigil Mass, then attending a Protestant service on Sunday, but I doubt it’s recommended.
 
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I’m a paleoconservative, as such labels go. Suits me just fine.
 
Back to the original question, I feel I do have an Ecumenical spirit. I have stated previously on the forum I dont feel loyalty to any particular denomination. I believe they are all part of the Church under Christ. I know this is not the Roman Catholic view; that’s fine, we can disagree. More unites us than divides us.

I wish we could do more together, not necessarily services. Food banks are a good example where combined resources between the churches would help more people than each church alone.
 
We have to differentiate Ecumenism from Interreligious Dialogue and Prayer. The prayer service described by Compline for the new mayor of San Francisco was a good example of Interreligious Prayer along with ecumenism perhaps. Christians and others, not necessarily joining in prayer, but praying alongside each other.

It obviously is interreligious dialogue when Catholics meet with Muslims. But what about when Catholics meet with Mormons? Unlike Muslims, they claim to be Christian. My suggestion is that this is Interreligious Dialogue, not ecumenism, because their view of Christianity is so different from the RCC. This does not make it bad, we still need to keep open communication.

What about RCC, and mainline Churches? At one time I would have said of course this is ecumenism. But some of them have taken drastically divergent not only from the common core of Christian orthodoxy, but wildly different from their own tradition of only a few decades ago.

Perhaps with some of the less radical denominations, or with some of the radical denominations’ more moderate congregations or dioceses, we might for now still call it ecumenism.
But with others it would now be Interreligious dialogue, not ecumenism, if RCC meets with them. And I think more and more of the mainline will be moving over into this category over time.
 
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“Heaven is about deeds, not creeds. Therefore, persons of many cultures and religions form the societies of heaven.” (Emanuel Swedenborg)
 
Outside the Church there is no salvation. This has been infallibly defined by the Church. “Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus” (Fourth Lateran Council)
 
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commenter said:
But with others it would now be Interreligious dialogue, not ecumenism, if RCC meets with them. And I think more and more of the mainline will be moving over into this category over time.
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I am not totally clear on your points. Are you differentiating between ecumenism and interfaith (or inter religious)? By definition, ecumenism is pan-Christian; interfaith is enveloping all faith traditions, Christian and non-Christian.

Are you saying that some Christians, such as LDS, might not truly be considered Christian in order to qualify for ecumenical engagement?

Or are you perhaps commenting on events and purposes of gatherings, such as the prayer service I described? There are certainly different ways that faith traditions come together - one of them being prayer services. There are also commemorations, such as the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, which the Pope and leaders of the Lutheran Church hosted together.

There are also serious and long-standing Dialogue groups, such as ARCIC, the Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission, which puts out reports on behalf of both branches of the Church. ARCIC

There are many levels and purposes of ecumenical work around the world. Some are small and community based, and some are international with important theological significance for the Church.
 
SebastianMary said:
Our only “fellow Christians” are Catholics. Non Catholics are not true followers of Christ.
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This is a false and narrow-minded view. I don’t know why you persist in believing it.

Our fellow Christians, meaning our Protestant brothers and sisters, also profess and believe in Jesus’ incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection. They also believe that He died for their sins. By their baptisms, they are joined spiritually to the Catholic Church, even if they don’t realize this.

They are absolutely followers of Christ, even if they don’t realize they are missing out on the Sacraments. They need their fellow Catholics to be the light on the hill to lead them home, and for us to pray that the Holy Spirit touches their hearts.

This is getting off-topic, but it shows why people who do have a true ecumenical spirit are so important. Some people seem to think that even praying with a non-Catholic is sinful. The reality is that we should be praying and working towards reunification and unity of the Church.
 
The only way we can have true unity is if all men come to the fold of Holy Mother Church. If that doesn’t happen, then there will never be unity.
 
From the Catechism of St. Plus X:

“12 Q. The many societies of persons who are baptised but who do not acknowledge the Roman Pontiff as their Head do not, then, belong to the Church of Jesus Christ? A. No, those who do not acknowledge the Roman Pontiff as their Head do not belong to the Church of Jesus Christ.”
 
SebastianMary said:
It’s fine have unity, but this unity is only WITHIN THE CHURCH. As long as Protestants deny the Church, they deny Christ. As long as they deny its teachings, they deny the Faith of Christ. Having small bits of elements (which they took from Catholicism) does not make them Christian. You cannot have Christ without the Church. We receive Sanctifying Grace through the Church, and through the Church we can be saved. Without the Church, we cannot have salvation. Protestants are not our brothers and sisters, because all those who are not in the friendship of God have the devil as their master.
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You are stating a falsehood, contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church teaches that those validly baptized with water and in the name of the Trinity, even though they are not visibly connected to the Church, are still honoured with the name of Christian, because there can be only one valid baptism. They, too, have been washed with water and the remission of original sin and so by virtue of the common baptism, the Church recognizes them as still connected, although imperfectly, to the Church.

This is not to say that evangelizing the or bringing to the fold is not necessary. It is, because they are materially professing heresy. But I will call you out if you continue to state what is false.

You read the Catechism on this matter first, because that is what the Church teaches. Specifically, 838.
 
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Surrender is not enough. You must be tortured until you recant, then tortured some more, thrown into a pond to see if you sink or are in reality a duck, then have a carrot tied on for a nose, then be examined by a knight-inquisitor, then be tortured some more, then burned at the stake.
And that’s just what we do to people we like.
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Your strawman argument is non-sense and wholly misplaced. You understand enough about the Catholic Church than to make that awful point.

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, and Christ Himseld entrusted St. Peter with the key to bind and with the responsibility to feed His sheep. There is nothing about making the Church great again. The Church has been faithful to the love and the mercy of Christ, and will continue to march into glory with that faithfulness.

All the mockeries and condescensions toward the faithful upholding Christ and the Magisterium must stop… And leave petty jousts and cheap politics out of it…
 
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SebastianMary said:
Outside the Church there is no salvation.
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How does that sit with the greatest commandments and the parable of the Good Samaritan? The lawyer asked Jesus a very clear question, what must I do to inherit eternal life? The priest and the Levite did not get a good press by sticking to their religious duties.

All the law of God hangs and depends on the greatest commandments.
 
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