A
AChris
Guest
No PRmerger, The CCC was written in the '90’s. Vatican II was in the '60’s. The CCC is not infallible.
As to Lumen Gentium, it does not contradict the infallible statements: extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
- Status
As to Lumen Gentium, it does not contradict the infallible statements: extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
A
AChris
Guest
There’s no such thing.
P
PRmerger
Guest
AChris, what was written in the CCC is lifted from an INFALLIBLE document from Vatican II.
From:
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
P
PRmerger
Guest
And more from that infallible source:
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.Lumen Gentium 16
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.Lumen Gentium 16
A
Auriel
Guest
I ran into a RCC priest not long ago. Just strangers having a short pleasant conversation.
He told me one does not have to be a Catholic to have salvation. That God honors the heart that loves Him and loves others.
Only loving people who are easy to love is not the same thing though, lol.
I did not even see the post above mine but yeah, that’s basically the long version of what the priest said.
D
Doxiemom
Guest
Short answer
No
No
C
chris2009
Guest
“13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matt 7:13-14)
If all we needed was to confess Christ as our personal Lord and Savior, then why did God make the Bible so complicated? God could have made a Holy Pamphlet that showed you how to say a simple prayer and be saved. It would have been much easier!
R
ron77nyc
Guest
usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml
- If a Catholic wants to marry a non-Catholic, how can they assure that the marriage is recognized by the Church?
Hi AChris,
I can’t say that you are wrong and I understand why you believe what you believe. At one time the CC didn’t allow a Catholic to marry outside the CC.
R
ron77nyc
Guest
Jesus made it that simple for the thief on the cross.
In Acts 16 Paul is telling the jailer that his whole family will be saved by the faith of one man in the family.
Acts 16:29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
J
Janet1983
Guest
Platonic? Married?
Jesus Christ is my Saviour! There is nothing more intimate than that…
I am actually married, but for my husband and for me Jesus Christ comes first…
Jesus is part of my every day life from me waking up in the morning until the minute that I go to sleep.
He wants to be number 1 in our lives and even though we sometimes do stray we always find back to Him who loved us first.
Jesus Christ is the Author and Perfecter of my faith, the Author of my salvation, my Lord, my Hope, my Friend, my Shepherd, my God, my Saviour, my King, my Light, my Master, my Mediator, my Rock, my Teacher, my Foundation, my Life, my Messiah, my Physician, my Salvation, etc. I could go on and on…
I don’t have to be Catholic to have an intimate relationship with my Lord.
I am a non-Catholic Christian and I do exist and love the Lord apart from the RCC, even though other might want to either deny my truthfulness or my existence thereby calling me a liar:
God however forgave me all of my sins, past, present and future… It is easy to not get upset about someone calling me a liar therefore, because in my past I surely have told one or the other lie and I cannot tell whether I won’t ever do so again, though I hope I won’t fall for this one. God has forgiven us and we should forgive others…
M
mpjw2
Guest
wow AChris, I did not expect to see your reply.
no such thing as a non catholic christian, what am I then?
better yet the answer is off topic so let us discuss it here…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5795101#post5795101
thank you
God bless
C
Carlan
Guest
C
Carlan
Guest
J
Janet1983
Guest
No, I don’t.
I used to go to mass daily and to confessions weekly, but I don’t miss either…
M
mpjw2
Guest
hi guanophore I believe you misunderstood some things maybe not… we will see
mpjw2
let me reword my intent…
Attn: all non-catholic catholic christian…
those of you like, hisalone and mpjw, who believe Jesus’ church is composed of all the christian believers in Jesus in all the 40,000+ churches …
How’s that?
mpjw2
you
Jesus’ church body includes catholics and all the non-catholic christians (protestants , lutherans, methodists, evangelicals, presbyterians, penticostals etc…) who are believers in Jesus Christ and will die not catholic.
this is what Hisalone stated
mpjw2
God bless
mpjw2
you
“not only” refers to hisalone and my belief not yours
let me reword my intent…
Attn: all non-catholic catholic christian…
those of you like, hisalone and mpjw, who believe Jesus’ church is composed of all the christian believers in Jesus in all the 40,000+ churches …
How’s that?
mpjw2
’
you
ok would you still believe it if I expanded my intent a little?..
Jesus’ church body includes catholics and all the non-catholic christians (protestants , lutherans, methodists, evangelicals, presbyterians, penticostals etc…) who are believers in Jesus Christ and will die not catholic.
this is what Hisalone stated
mpjw2
you
call it as you like , but you said it to hisalone after he made that statement
isn’t concept a belief?
mpjw2
thank you, I am getting closer to understanding
God bless
C
Carlan
Guest
You are still very young my Dear.
Carlan
M
mpjw2
Guest
C
Carlan
Guest
Carlan;5795147:
Those Christians out side the Church who have been baptized in the name of the Father
Son and Holy Spirit their Baptism is valid , however, they are separated from the full truth of the Apostolic Church. We have been over all this mpjw, are you not listening to the fine Apologists in this thread.Carlan
C
Carlan
Guest
Janet, Catholic spirituality runs very deep. Becoming a new creation, a new man involves more than the Once Saved always Saved doctrine of many P denoms.
The beautiful choir music, the sermon on Sunday mornings, the occasional memorial held with bits of bread and juice is surface practice. Please forgive me if I sound rough in describing your worship. Many Protestants do have it 80% right, however,very important doctrine which Jesus instituted is being ignored. you are not participating in the full truth of what Jesus gave to his Apostles to pass on to us. You know what I am talking about Janet. Why won’t you acknowledge it. What is the real reason for you to be here with us if you have turned away from the church you were raised in. Are you still looking for answers to suit you. You say you were thoroughly catechised. What’s up Janet?:shrug:Carlan
s
J
Janet1983
Guest
I’ve been there… I was a member of several choirs (well I moved a couple of times) and I was an altar server and I taught altar servers (probably because I am a perfectionist and I held my standards at a very high level).
I did help teenagers understand the Catholic faith better before their confirmation… I was part of a team of catechists that did have small groups and large groups (when we did have classes together).
My group were 7 teenagers of my village… I was just 18 and I was pretty close to the kids and I could teach them all that was on my teaching schedule.
At school I did have religious education until my final tests and religious education was one of my 4 majors… I actually taught some of the classes myself, mainly because the teacher figured I was getting bored as I had answers to all questions and things were so obvious for me.
From there however I never quit asking and in the end I grew further away from the RCC than I would have ever imagined. I used to scoff at Protestants and I could have never imagined that I would actually ever leave the RCC… I actually wanted to become a nun and I spend 10 months at a nunnery while I was still at school. They wouldn’t accept me in until after my graduation from school otherwise I would not be here, but be a nun somewhere in Germany.
I did however do what many people in Germany did (people who I scoffed about some years before that): I started approaching the Catholic faith more intensely and I did do what quite a few College students do: They fall from faith once they get into the depth of theology…
I do not miss it and I don’t think I could ever go back.
- Status