do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

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stevusmagnus said:
The Catechism nowhere says there are athiests, druids, wiccans, etc in Heaven.
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Ok.

But did you know, stevus, that the CC celebrates the Feast of the Holy Innocents (I think on Dec 28).

Those were non-baptized JEWISH babies, right?

So we can assume we know that there are at least lots of Jews in heaven! 🤷
 
ron77nyc said:
It seems OK to me but I’m not an expert on what the Church teaches. I’ve been called a heretic, false representative, cafeteria catholic, ignorant, etc.
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Welcome to the club, ron. I’ve been called the same. :mad:
 
distracted said:
then you’re the one to ask this question i have:

i think it was @ Atheists.com that i heard this poster say that Augustine was a bad person who shouldnt have been canonized (paraphrase)… because he ditched a women he’d had a child with… then was supposed to marry someone his mother wanted him to marry but she was only 13… so he had to wait or something… :confused: but anyway… the poster said that he shouldn’t have been held in such regard because he shirked his responsibility to his child…

i was kinda wondering about that same thing even b4 i went to that site… :confused:
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I think Post #913 is a good response.

People have vilified CS Lewis also for apparently having an affair with a married woman. I don’t get too concerned with that because it’s too difficult to determine fact from fiction. His writings and propositions should be taken on their own merits, despite the quality of his private life, sinful or not.
 
Janet1983 said:
They do not disagree on the main statements of faith however…
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It seems, Janet, that this is not true. Just on this forum I’ve read great disparity on this list of “main statements of faith”.

Here’s what I learned from another you just a few months ago about what’s considered “essential” by Protestants.
  1. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
  2. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
  3. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
  4. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
  5. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8)
  6. God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (1 John 5:7)
  7. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (nature of incarnation)
  8. Jesus is the only way to God the Father (John 14:6)."
But, wait!! Here’s another completely different list of essentials!

Those essentials were written by Matt Slick of CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. The CARM web site states that CARN exists to defend the Christian faith by analyzing religions such as Islam, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Universalism, Wicca, etc., and comparing them to the Bible. They give (at least) these scriptural references. Certainly these essentials are lacking per Catholic dogma.

Primary Essentials:

Diety of Christ – John 8:24, John 8:58 + Exodus 3:14.
Salvation by Grace – Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8-9
Resurrection of Christ – 1 Cor 15:14, 1 Cor 15:17
Gospel – Gal 1:8-9, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Monotheism – Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6,8, Exodus 20:3-6

Secondary Essentials:

Salvation – John 14:6
Trinity – John 3:16, John 5:26, 1 John 4:10, John 14:26, 15:26, Isaiah 44:24, Gal 3:13, Rom 15:16
Incarnation through Virgin Birth – Matt 1:23, John 8:24

And here’s some more “essentials” that have been left off:

God made the world (Gen 1:1)
God loves you (Rom 5:8)
God is love (1 Jn 4:16)
Keep the commandments (Deut 4:2)
How to get eternal life (Matt 19:16)
Love your neighbor (Mark 12:28)
You shall love the Lord your God with your entire heart, soul, mind and strength (Deut 6:5)
Jesus founded a church (Matt 16:18)
Confess your sins (James 5:16)
Baptism saves you (1 Peter 3:21)
Your sins are forgiven (Matt 6:9)

It seems quite clear that Scripture is quite UNCLEAR about what are the
'main statements of faith".

Fortunately, the CC is quite clear about it creeds, but if you go by Scripture alone, you’re left with 40,000 different denominations, each claiming its different “main statments of faith” are true.
 
mpjw2 said:
I have one question though…

Is it a problem to be too much loving on this forum?

reason I ask, I noticed tweetymom was banned :(. any thoughts?

good night

God bless
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I am sorry to hear this, as I did not know. Of course it is impossible to be “too loving” anywhere!

It is possible that it may be problematic to present oneself as Catholic while promoting non-Catholic theologies. We are not permitted to speculate about such matters, it is against the forum rules. The only reason people get banned is for violating forum rules. I know that the mods work hard to correct problems, and give warnings and chances to correct (I have had them too :o) before taking such drastic measures to protect the environment. A lot sometimes goes on behind the scenes.
 
Janet1983 said:
Seems to me that according to the CC the CC is the one true church Jesus Christ founded and that one has to be part of her to get saved. If one however has not the full knowledge of the “truth” of the CC (and who has that please?) then it does not matter because just being a sincere believer in anything is enough to get one into heaven… The one true church thereby declares it is the one true church but there is salvation outside of her if you lack knowledge making everything else that’s on the market true too…
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that’s not what the Church teaches…

it is difficult for a non-C to be saved… not impossible but difficult…
 
mpjw2 said:
and you are saying in a nut shell…

Attn: all non-catholic catholic christian…

those of you like, hisalone and mpjw, who believe Jesus’ church is not only the Catholic church as we believe,
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Thisi s a false statement, mpjw. “We” believe nothing of the kind. You are wrongfully imputing this.
mpjw2 said:
Code: 
but
the church is Jesus’ church body which includes ALL christians (catholics, baptists, protestants etc) who are believers in Jesus Christ…
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This is what the Catholic Church believes and teaches.
mpjw2 said:
your belief is deficient.
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No one has said this here, either. Many people on the thread have expressed ideas that fall short of the fullness of apostolic faith.

Those who espouse those views are fully invested in them with faith. There is nothing “deficient” about the passion of their beliefs.

It is the doctrine that is deficient.
mpjw2 said:
Out of the kindness and love of our hearts we present this truth to you.
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Was this intended to sound condescending?
mpjw2 said:
Since we believe Jesus one true church is the catholic church you will have the best chance of salvation by coming home to the church Jesus founded and receive the sacraments and the fullness of truth.

we love you all and will keep you in our prayers and want to let you know you are always welcomed 👍

Did I get it right this time?
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This part, yes. 👍
 
don’t suppose you protestants would believe MY story, which proves that the RCC is the true religion if nothing else does… proves it to me and a few others at least…

before i found the RCC (re-found her) i didn’t think fornication was a mortal sin… i didn’t thik impure acts with self were wrong. i didn’t think birth control was that big a deal…

i didn’t even think adultery was wrong all the t ime… Boy, was i lost… but then again, to my credit, i never really THOUGHT much about anything in those days…didn’t think DEEPLY about anything… in those days of my youth… If i had thought about things more deeply, i would have come to the same conclusion as the Church: that all those things are VERY wrong… (incidentally i didn’t necessarily PRACTICE all of what i have listed… not hardly… and probably that’s because i was raised, albeit nominally, Catholic).

in any case, there is a lot of sin out there that the Catholic Church, with all its many weapons… can eradicate from the world… if only everyone were Catholic…

***Why do non-catholics fight the Catholic Church??? :confused:

Shouldn’t they be fighting Satan instead??? ***
 
distracted said:
in any case, there is a lot of sin out there that the Catholic Church, with all its many weapons… can eradicate from the world… if only everyone were Catholic…

***Why do non-catholics fight the Catholic Church??? :confused:

Shouldn’t they be fighting Satan instead??? ***
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I’m very glad you had that experience. The Catholic Church is your home and that’s where God used His servants to bring you home. The problem is that people in all religions have the same experience and they think it’s the religion that should be exalted. It isn’t. God is to be exalted for anything that we receive. That’s where there is unity. I’m not saying all religions are the same. I’m saying that when we follow God’s teachings we are not divisive. Do not retaliate evil for evil. Humble yourself. Try to outdo each other with good deeds. Be kind to one another. You will be judged by the measure you judge.

Matthew5: 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I think we will be judged on how well we did those things on earth and not what church we went to. Like in the parable of the talents. God will ask: “What did you do with what I gave you?”
 
distracted said:
that’s not what the Church teaches…

it is difficult for a non-C to be saved… not impossible but difficult…
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I am saved… phew… good that I do not have to worry about that…
According to the Catholic teaching about sacraments (I received 4 out of a maximum of 6…) I actually will never be non-Catholic…
And on top of that I actually got saved…
 
distracted said:
don’t suppose you protestants would believe MY story, which proves that the RCC is the true religion if nothing else does… proves it to me and a few others at least…

before i found the RCC (re-found her) i didn’t think fornication was a mortal sin… i didn’t thik impure acts with self were wrong. i didn’t think birth control was that big a deal…

i didn’t even think adultery was wrong all the t ime… Boy, was i lost… but then again, to my credit, i never really THOUGHT much about anything in those days…didn’t think DEEPLY about anything… in those days of my youth… If i had thought about things more deeply, i would have come to the same conclusion as the Church: that all those things are VERY wrong… (incidentally i didn’t necessarily PRACTICE all of what i have listed… not hardly… and probably that’s because i was raised, albeit nominally, Catholic).

in any case, there is a lot of sin out there that the Catholic Church, with all its many weapons… can eradicate from the world… if only everyone were Catholic…

***Why do non-catholics fight the Catholic Church??? :confused:

Shouldn’t they be fighting Satan instead??? ***
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First of all: “You Protestants” in this case actually also denotes 2 people who used to be Catholic. I don’t know about mp, but I was deeply involved in Catholic activities…
Well secondly: We have been members of the CC… I know that this is part of my past and while I surely fight the devil I take some time out for good conversations and discussions on Catholic topics…
 
distracted said:
don’t suppose you protestants would believe MY story, which proves that the RCC is the true religion if nothing else does… proves it to me and a few others at least…

before i found the RCC (re-found her) i didn’t think fornication was a mortal sin… i didn’t thik impure acts with self were wrong. i didn’t think birth control was that big a deal…

i didn’t even think adultery was wrong all the t ime… Boy, was i lost… but then again, to my credit, i never really THOUGHT much about anything in those days…didn’t think DEEPLY about anything… in those days of my youth… If i had thought about things more deeply, i would have come to the same conclusion as the Church: that all those things are VERY wrong… (incidentally i didn’t necessarily PRACTICE all of what i have listed… not hardly… and probably that’s because i was raised, albeit nominally, Catholic).

in any case, there is a lot of sin out there that the Catholic Church, with all its many weapons… can eradicate from the world… if only everyone were Catholic…

***Why do non-catholics fight the Catholic Church??? :confused:

Shouldn’t they be fighting Satan instead??? ***
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Gosh Im not Catholic and I know fornication is a sin. I know adultry is sin I dont need that the CC to tell me that. I praise God that your life is turned around mine has ourside the CC.
 
Janet1983 said:
Seems to me that according to the CC the CC is the one true church Jesus Christ founded and that one has to be part of her to get saved. If one however has not the full knowledge of the “truth” of the CC (and who has that please?) then it does not matter because just being a sincere believer in anything is enough to get one into heaven… The one true church thereby declares it is the one true church but there is salvation outside of her if you lack knowledge making everything else that’s on the market true too…
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I think your logic here is flawless. You’ve perfectly explained how what most Catholics believe about salvation would in fact guarantee salvation for all but the likes of Satan himself, who knew perfectly what he was doing with his “non serviam”. For most of humanity it would be very difficult to get to hell…God would never punish the ignorant, right? And why would anyone in their right minds become Catholic and needlessly heed her commandments? Why would anyone try to convert anyone else if they are saved already?

No. The Church said “outside the Church there is no salvation”. Later, people fallibly tried to make that more appealing, and put the word “visible” in it, or said…well, if you restate it in positive terms…hey! We get a completely different answer! Well, isn’t that just sweet? But you can’t take an infallible statement and change the meaning of it with fallible documents like the catechism of the CC.

Another thing: Through a valid baptism people become Catholic, regardless what they might call themselves. Now, through sin (like missing Mass) they lose the sanctifying grace necessary to be in heaven.

Also, a sin is only sinful if it is:
  1. a grave matter (mortal sin)
  2. if there’s full knowledge in the mind that it is a sin
  3. if there’s full consent of the will
That’s what it means not to judge. Don’t judge people in 2 or 3 above, but number one, the act itself, of course we have to judge if acts are good or bad - we just don’t judge if the person doing it is actually committing sin or not - we don’t know his mind or heart. Only God does.
 
AChris said:
No. The Church said “outside the Church there is no salvation”. Later, people fallibly tried to make that more appealing, and put the word “visible” in it, or said…well, if you restate it in positive terms…hey! We get a completely different answer! Well, isn’t that just sweet? But you can’t take an infallible statement and change the meaning of it with fallible documents like the catechism of the CC.
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No, AChris. The document is an infallible document from an ecumenical council.

(Cited in the CCC) Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.* **Lumen Gentium ***14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5.
 
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