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mpjw2
Guest
amen
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mpjw2
Guest
And how does one know the CC got it all right?
Anyone got God’s cell phone # so we can ask Him for verification on these issues we disagree?
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mpjw2
Guest
If cell phone not available next suggestion would be the bible and prayer
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ron77nyc
Guest
God scattered Israel because of bad shepherds.
<< Ezekiel 34 >>
New International Version
Shepherds and Sheep
1The word of the Lord came to me: 2“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? 3You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. 4You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. 5So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. 6My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them.
7“‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, 9therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 10This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.
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mpjw2
Guest
back to the subject at hand…
do catholics believe there is or is not salvation outside of the CC?
I must admit I must be stupid, ignorant, blinded, that I do not see how you believe there is salvation outside the chuch even after these recent posts that you believe the CC is the only true church.
PR uses illustrations so I have one of my own in #854 unreplied too. I hope this is the last time I ask for clarification in this area
thank you for you patience
I look forward to your answer in laymans terms please as so I can better understand you
God bless
do catholics believe there is or is not salvation outside of the CC?
I must admit I must be stupid, ignorant, blinded, that I do not see how you believe there is salvation outside the chuch even after these recent posts that you believe the CC is the only true church.
PR uses illustrations so I have one of my own in #854 unreplied too. I hope this is the last time I ask for clarification in this area
thank you for you patience
I look forward to your answer in laymans terms please as so I can better understand you
God bless
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AChris
Guest
Very good question. I’m curious as well.
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guanophore
Guest
This is Catholic Teaching, whether you are willing to acknowledge it, or not. God teaches this through the Church He founded.
You are in error, mpjw2. W both believe the same thing.
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Jesus only has One Body, therefore, all who are saved are members of His One Body, the Church. Not all persons who are saved are recognizable as members of the visible Catholic Church.
You are in error on this point as well. Catholic teaching does not come from the Bible, but from Christ. It was whole and entire before a word of the NT was ever written. The NT reflects the Teachings of Jesus, but it is not the Source. Jesus is the Source.
The Apostles taught that there was only one Church before it was written. The Apostles taught that God saves whoever He wants, however He likes, no matter what we see on the outside.
Catholics are not at liberty to depart from what was commited to the Church by the Apostles. To do so would be to embrace “a different gospel” and we would be anathema.
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PRmerger
Guest
Amen!
It seems that God is saying, “have it your way”…and now we’re reaping what we’ve sowed. Dissension and disunity and 40,000 different denominations with differing doctrines about baptism, salvation, hell, Mary, the Eucharist, the priesthood, marriage…(yes! even marriage!! Who would have thought that we would have dissension about something as fundamental as that? :sad_yes
This paradigm has clearly been hatched by the Deceiver.and when we decide to do it HIS way, there will be One Church, the Church that Jesus left us with the Fullness of Truth.
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PRmerger
Guest
Yes. And some of the most educated and articulate Catholics and apologists have been cradle catholics–like Patrick Madrid. Oh, and how about these 2 great thinkers, JPII and Pope B16??
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ron77nyc
Guest
It’s not a contest. :compcoff:
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PRmerger
Guest
Each and every time you open your Bible, mpjw, you agree that mortal men (that is, Catholic bishops) decided for you what’s Scripture and what’s not.
Each and every time you say, “God wouldn’t _________” or “The Bible says _______” you are giving tacit approval to the CC which canonized and formally defined the books of the Bible. ( the Synod of Rome (382), the Council of Hippo (393), the Council of Carthage (397), a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse (405), and the Second Council of Carthage (419). Source here.
For, the only way you know that the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired but the Gospel of Mark is…is because…the Catholic Church told you so.
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PRmerger
Guest
Indeed.
I admire greatly men like St. Augustine, Fr. Corapi, Fr. Don Calloway who had dramatic conversion stories.
I’m just saying that one needed live on the other side of the tracks to be relevant.
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guanophore
Guest
It is a complicated concept, so it is not surprising that it is difficult to grasp. The Catholic Church teaches that there is no salvation apart from Christ. Christ is inseparabely joined with His Holy Bride, the Church. All who are in Christ are members of His One Body, the Church.
I hope this helps, but if no, don’t feel like you cannot continue to inquire and clarify.
I am not sure it is at all possible to reduce a complex theological mystery to "laymens terms’. If it were, there would probably not be so many people calling themselves Catholic expressing what appears to be opposites.
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PRmerger
Guest
Your post was answered here, mpjw.
(I think this is the 3rd or 4th time you’ve said, “No one answered my question!” to which you’ve been shown, at least one, sometimes multiple, responses to your question. sigh)
I’m still waiting for your response as to what exactly about your salvation that you doubt.
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guanophore
Guest
You are right, and God can write straight with crooked lines, but that does not make it “good” to deliberately draw crooked lines!
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guanophore
Guest
Such a statement represents a seriously deficient concept of Church.
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PRmerger
Guest
Beautiful post, dear Carlan!!
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guanophore
Guest
One decides to accept His words. He promised to send the Spirit to lead them into all Truth. He said He would not allow the gates of hell to prevail. He said He would not leave them orphaned. Catholics accept that Jesus is not to weak or disinterested in His flock to keep these promises.
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ron77nyc
Guest
One **need not ** (or needn’t) (I couldn’t resist the correction) cross the tracks to be relevant but there is a purpose in the Church for those Catholics who have learned from Protestants. They can better understand the questions of those who have gone that way. It would be great if everyone stayed Catholic and was perfectly happy but it isn’t like that in real life. If you’ve had good Catholics as role models and mentors then you want to be Catholic. If you’ve had some bad shepherds you will leave. Some have left the Church and found that they can be closer to God somewhere else. Some convert from other religions to Catholicism. Some leave Catholicism and come back like the prodigal son. That’s just the way it is and Jesus will never lose any that belong to Him.Indeed.
I admire greatly men like St. Augustine, Fr. Corapi, Fr. Don Calloway who had dramatic conversion stories.
I’m just saying that one needed live on the other side of the tracks to be relevant.
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PRmerger
Guest
Ok, Ron!! War is on! I am a member of the Grammar Police and I LOVE to correct grammar, but I just hold myself back on this forum because it’s in poor taste.
So…now I’m on the look out and fair is fair. Typos…grammar…spelling…watch out 'cause I’m calling you on it!
Ok. I’m thinking I disagree with you, but I could be persuaded to go to your side on this issue.
It’s just that I wouldn’t really care if my doctor has had cancer or not–if he can give me the right treatment for my cancer, he’s my guy.
If I had to go to a marriage counselor, I wouldn’t really care if this counselor had experienced the same “issues” I had–as long as she could provide truthful, relevant advice, she’s my gal.
See what I’m saying, Ron?
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