do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[andrewcothran]

There will be no catholics in heaven period no baptists methodists presbyterians or lutherans
there is no church membership as we know it on earth .I promise you Saint Peter will not be checking your membership at the gate ,.Certainly those there are members of the Body of Christ … But the Body of Christ includes members who on earth were protestant orthodox ect … But no one becomes a member of his body because they were in the club so to speak …To say all people must be Catholic to enter heaven is pure HERESY It is actually against church teachings and shows either and ignorance or arrogance on the part of the speaker …No offense intended …

 

[guanophore]

I think we will be judged on how well we did those things on earth and not what church we went to. Like in the parable of the talents. God will ask: “What did you do with what I gave you?”

Good point Ron!

This is another reason we cannot judge ourselves. None of us know the secret thoughts and motives of the heart, inlcuding our own. None of us can look into a person’s life, and know fully what all they have done to respond to God’s call.

 

[Carlan]

I’ve been there… I was a member of several choirs (well I moved a couple of times) and I was an altar server and I taught altar servers (probably because I am a perfectionist and I held my standards at a very high level).
I did help teenagers understand the Catholic faith better before their confirmation… I was part of a team of catechists that did have small groups and large groups (when we did have classes together).
My group were 7 teenagers of my village… I was just 18 and I was pretty close to the kids and I could teach them all that was on my teaching schedule.
At school I did have religious education until my final tests and religious education was one of my 4 majors… I actually taught some of the classes myself, mainly because the teacher figured I was getting bored as I had answers to all questions and things were so obvious for me.
From there however I never quit asking and in the end I grew further away from the RCC than I would have ever imagined. I used to scoff at Protestants and I could have never imagined that I would actually ever leave the RCC… I actually wanted to become a nun and I spend 10 months at a nunnery while I was still at school. They wouldn’t accept me in until after my graduation from school otherwise I would not be here, but be a nun somewhere in Germany.
I did however do what many people in Germany did (people who I scoffed about some years before that): I started approaching the Catholic faith more intensely and I did do what quite a few College students do: They fall from faith once they get into the depth of theology…
I do not miss it and I don’t think I could ever go back.

That is quite a resume’ Janet. and you have really just started your life,that is, compared to where I am( down the last stretch) and with no such credentials. It is quite unbelievable to me that you can be where you are following that history. But I can see it does happen. :sad_yes: God Bless Carlan

 

[guanophore]

Jesus made it that simple for the thief on the cross.

It appears that way. But, for all we know, he may have been baptized by John or by the Aposltes, then failed to walk in faith. He may have listened to Jesus’ teachings, and that is why he wanted to be “remembered” by Him, and not be among those about which He says “depart from Me, I never knew you”.

In Acts 16 Paul is telling the jailer that his whole family will be saved by the faith of one man in the family.
Acts 16:29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

But what follows? Immediately they are baptized, at which time the make a commitment to walk in the faith into which they are baptized. None of the Apostles taught that a person was saved once in time, for all time. All converts were expected to devote themselves to the Teaching of the Apostles, and to walk in a new way of life, in the NT, called The Way. Yes, believing in Jesus will save us, but it is a complete believing in ALL that He did and taught. This included’ if you do not forgive your brother from your heart, your heavenly father will not forgive you".

 

[ron77nyc]

To say all people must be Catholic to enter heaven is pure HERESY It is actually against church teachings and shows either and ignorance or arrogance on the part of the speaker …No offense intended …

This is the heart of the problem. Popes have always said only Catholics go to heaven, I think for the purpose of maintaining unity. They even exclude Catholics from heaven if they don’t accept everything that is taught. If they did not want to be taken literally or there were exceptions in some cases they didn’t tell anyone until Vatican II. They left Catholics with the impression that they were the chosen people. Just read CAF and you can see that many Catholics are still proud and arrogant about being the “real church” or the “true religion.”

SATIS COGNITUM
Encyclical by Pope Leo XIII on the
Unity of the Church
given on June 29, 1896
“No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or may arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single one of these he is not a Catholic” (S. Augustinus, De Haeresibus, n. 88).

Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 - 1903): “This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.” (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878): “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): “Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Enchiridion Patristicum)

Venerable Bede (died A.D. 735): “Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside.” (Hexaemeron)

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): “There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church.” (Summa Theologiae)

 

[AChris]

This is the heart of the problem. Popes have always said only Catholics go to heaven, I think for the purpose of maintaining unity. They even exclude Catholics from heaven if they don’t accept everything that is taught. If they did not want to be taken literally or there were exceptions in some cases they didn’t tell anyone until Vatican II. They left Catholics with the impression that they were the chosen people. Just read CAF and you can see that many Catholics are still proud and arrogant about being the “real church” or the “true religion.”

SATIS COGNITUM
Encyclical by Pope Leo XIII on the
Unity of the Church
given on June 29, 1896
“No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or may arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single one of these he is not a Catholic” (S. Augustinus, De Haeresibus, n. 88).

Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 - 1903): “This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.” (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878): “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): “Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Enchiridion Patristicum)

Venerable Bede (died A.D. 735): “Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside.” (Hexaemeron)

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): “There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church.” (Summa Theologiae)

Interesting what you say about the CC being the chosen people. That’s exactly what we are. It’s not arrogance. It’s truth.

 

[AChris]

AChris, what was written in the CCC is lifted from an INFALLIBLE document from Vatican II.

From:
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Thank you. Quoting Vatican II is different than quoting the CCC.

However, as you can see, saying “they could not be saved who, knowing that…” is not saying anything different than what the Church has always said.

 

[guanophore]

wow AChris, I did not expect to see your reply.

no such thing as a non catholic christian, what am I then?

better yet the answer is off topic so let us discuss it here…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5795101#post5795101

thank you

God bless

I am relieved to see this reply from aChris. The Catholic Church recognizes that Jesus only founded One Church, and only has One Body. Therefore, everyone who is a Christian is a member of His One Body, the Church. Persons such as yourself, who have been properly baptized, are recognized as being members of the One Body of Christ. They are imperfectly joined to the Catholic Church, but joined nonetheless.

Such persons may not be members of the visible Catholic Church on earth.

 

[AChris]

And more from that infallible source:

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.Lumen Gentium 16

Of course the Church can’t change dogma, so everything in Vatican II has to be understood in the light of what was said previously, not the other way around.

I understand this quote from Vatican II to mean that the ignorant “may achieve” salvation by becoming Catholic.

 

[ron77nyc]

Interesting what you say about the CC being the chosen people. That’s exactly what we are. It’s not arrogance. It’s truth.

The Jews are the chosen people. The gentiles were grafted in and were cautioned about becoming arrogant.

Romans 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

 

[ron77nyc]

Of course the Church can’t change dogma, so everything in Vatican II has to be understood in the light of what was said previously, not the other way around.

I understand this quote from Vatican II to mean that the ignorant “may achieve” salvation by becoming Catholic.

If Jesus keeps people out of heaven for not being Catholic and for no other reason than that, He would have to apologize to the Pharisees for correcting them about sticking to the letter of the law and not having the spirit of the law.

 

[ron77nyc]

It appears that way. But, for all we know, he may have been baptized by John or by the Aposltes, then failed to walk in faith. He may have listened to Jesus’ teachings, and that is why he wanted to be “remembered” by Him, and not be among those about which He says “depart from Me, I never knew you”.

:newidea:Maybe he was one of the chosen people.

 

[guanophore]

“not only” refers to hisalone and my belief not yours

One must keep in mind that Catholics believe, since there is only One Body, all who are in Christ are members of His One Body. You may not be a member of the visible church, but you are imperfectly joined if you were properly baptized.

and you are saying in a nut shell…

Attn: all non-catholic catholic christian…

those of you like, hisalone and mpjw, who believe Jesus’ church is not only the Catholic church as we believe,

but

the church is Jesus’ church body which includes ALL christians (catholics, baptists, protestants etc) who are believers in Jesus Christ…

your belief is deficient.

What you said was false for two reasons. One that we do not judge other’s beliefs as “deficient” or not. Only the theology.

Catholics believe that there is only one Church, and all who are in Christ are members of His one Body. This is the same belief that you claim is held by protestants on the thread. The difference is that we see the fullness of the Apostolic teaching in the visible Catholic Church, while all other ecclesial communities are missing some of that.

let me reword my intent…

It seems to me that your intent is to get Catholics to say that, if you are not part of a visible Catholic congregation, you cannot be saved. This is not what the Catholic Church believes and teaches. I cannot understand why it seems so important to you to make this be said.

Attn: all non-catholic catholic christian…
those of you like, hisalone and mpjw, who believe Jesus’ church is composed of all the christian believers in Jesus in all the 40,000+ churches … 'your belief is deficient".

How’s that?

No, that is not what the Catholic Church teaches. The Church teaches that it is wrong to evaluate the state of the heart (belief) of others, including ourselves. We are to live so as we cannot find any wrong in ourselves, but we are not thereby acquitted.

Since belief is a matter of the heart, and only God can see the heart, only He is qualified to find someone;s relationship with Him deficient.

would you still believe it if I expanded my intent a little?..

Jesus’ church body includes catholics and all the non-catholic christians (protestants , lutherans, methodists, evangelicals, presbyterians, penticostals etc…) who are believers in Jesus Christ and will die not catholic.

Well, we see it differently. Catholics perceive that all who are baptized into Christ are imperfectly joined to His One Body, the Church. The fact that they are not members of a visible Catholic congregation notwithstanding. Only God can judge if they are Catholic(members of His One Body, the Church).
"Hisalone:

“The Church is comprised of those called out by God these include Catholics and nonCatholics alike. This is the real Church of God.”

guanophore:

Such a statement represents a seriously deficient concept of Church.

call it as you like , but you said it to hisalone after he made that statement …isn’t concept a belief?

No, indeed, a concept is most certainly not a belief! Some people do believe in concepts, and may be in error, but they are two different things.

For example, there is a common concept in modern scientific thought that human beings evolved from apes. In my opinion, it is a deficient concept.

There is a common concept here at CAF, especially among our separated brethren, that the Church is the body of believers on earth. The Apostles taugh that this is a deficient concept of “church”. While it is an accurate statement, it reflects only one small truth about the Church, and leaves out much more.

thank you, I am getting closer to understanding

God bless

I believe that may be, but because you started another thread on this topic, it shows that you think they are separate “concepts” when they are not.

 

[guanophore]

If Jesus keeps people out of heaven for not being Catholic and for no other reason than that, He would have to apologize to the Pharisees for correcting them about sticking to the letter of the law and not having the spirit of the law.

True. To say that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church is not the same thing as saying you cannot be saved unless you are Catholic.

 

[guanophore]

:newidea:Maybe he was one of the chosen people.

Without a doubt! He may not have known until he was a death’s door.

 

[Hisalone]

True. To say that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church is not the same thing as saying you cannot be saved unless you are Catholic.

doublespeak, doublespeak, doublespeak

 

[Hisalone]

Interesting what you say about the CC being the chosen people. That’s exactly what we are. It’s not arrogance. It’s truth.

God as chosen a people to Himself some are Catholic some are not.

 

[PRmerger]

Platonic? Married?

Yep. Cool, huh?

 

[PRmerger]

If Jesus keeps people out of heaven for not being Catholic

I think this discussion is really showing a critical deficiency in understanding exactly what heaven is. It is the Divine Marriage, where the Eternal Wedding Feast occurs before the heavenly altar. If YOU refuse the Divine Marriage Proposal, God says, “So be it. I will not force you to be with Me.”

It is NOT Jesus “keeping people out of heaven for not being Catholic.”

 

[PRmerger]

Yep. Cool, huh?

More on this magnificent understanding of God and His Creation as revealed in Scripture and the writings of the Church Fathers and expounded upon by the late, great Pope JPII later…