do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[Janet1983]

***Inside the Real Presence is BETTER… Understatement of the feaking year… ***

I do not believe in the “real presence” in the same way you do. I do not have to go into a church with eucharistic adoration to be in the direct presence of my Lord. I can praise Him and worship Him alone and I can do so with my Christian brothers and sisters at my church if I choose to do so (and I do because iron sharpens iron).

 

[ron77nyc]

i fail to see where i said anything “unloving”…

unlvoing is not trying to save poeple from Hell… which the Bible and the Church say is where most people go… (in so many words)

Sorry about that. I didn’t mean to include you in the unloving. I was just expressing my thoughts under your heading.

 

[bjryman]

The Church teaches that there is one universal church. That church embraces and is comprised of all Christians. Other christian religions are not in full communion with the church, but all christians who accept Christ as their personal savior, are baptized in water in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and confirmed in the Spirit are the ones going to heaven.

I’ll leave the “state” of Purgatory out of this discussion as it is not relevant to the original question.

So, one view of the commonality of all saved Christians is that we all are in heaven of the same community. OK so far? Now, here is the catch that gets misinterpreted. If a person believes that the one Christian physical faith on earth represents what Jesus originally established via Peter and the Apostles, and that was handed down through the ordained descendants, then in heaven we are all reunited under that single banner; thus we are all again catholics (i.e. part of the universal church established by Christ)

Nice nuance and words, but the key is we must all be saved equally in Jesus’s name…period.

 

[PRmerger]

I know what the church teaches, I used to believe it and I don’t agree with it anymore.

I accept that you know much about what the church teaches, Janet…probably more than the average Catholic Joe in the pew.

However, would it be true to say that you’ve learned much more about the CC’s teachings than you knew before you left the Church, thanks to the CAF?

Isn’t there something that this forum has corrected about your prior understanding of Church teaching?

 

[Carlan]

Janet1983;5802164I:

know what the church teaches, I used to believe it and I don’t agree with it anymore. I changed my mind.
I believe in Jesus Christ. He is my Saviour and my Lord. I am a Christian… and whether or not you want to claim that I am apostate does not even matter in this case…

Janet’s
I’ve been there… I was a member of several choirs (well I moved a couple of times) and I was an altar server and I taught altar servers (probably because I am a perfectionist and I held my standards at a very high level).
I did help teenagers understand the Catholic faith better before their confirmation… I was part of a team of catechists that did have small groups and large groups (when we did have classes together).
My group were 7 teenagers of my village… I was just 18 and I was pretty close to the kids and I could teach them all that was on my teaching schedule.
At school I did have religious education until my final tests and religious education was one of my 4 majors… I actually taught some of the classes myself, mainly because the teacher figured I was getting bored as I had answers to all questions and things were so obvious for me.
From there however I never quit asking and in the end I grew further away from the RCC than I would have ever imagined. I used to scoff at Protestants and I could have never imagined that I would actually ever leave the RCC… I actually wanted to become a nun and I spend 10 months at a nunnery while I was still at school. They wouldn’t accept me in until after my graduation from school otherwise I would not be here, but be a nun somewhere in Germany.
I did however do what many people in Germany did (people who I scoffed about some years before that): I started approaching the Catholic faith more intensely and I did do what quite a few College students do: They fall from faith once they get into the depth of theology…
I do not miss it and I don’t think I could ever go back.

Janet tells us she was thoroughly catechized to the utmost extent and fell from faith during her theology studies. Then turned away from the faith. So I would say she is apostate.

Of course she was still very young  at the time so she could have been simply immature or it could have been an immature decision of some other kind and  later rec'd the so called saved experience  which took priority over all she had previously believed.  Only she would know and of course God will ultimately be her judge as he will be ours.Carlan

"

 

[Janet1983]

Nice nuance and words, but the key is we must all be saved equally in Jesus’s name…period.

Well and you don’t need to be Catholic to actually be saved…

 

[Janet1983]

I accept that you know much about what the church teaches, Janet…probably more than the average Catholic Joe in the pew.

However, would it be true to say that you’ve learned much more about the CC’s teachings than you knew before you left the Church, thanks to the CAF?

Isn’t there something that this forum has corrected about your prior understanding of Church teaching?

Well it is kind of hard to say whether or not I learned more about the Catholic faith after joining CAF because the information here is sometimes rather conflicting and not absolutely clear in its sources… I might however say that I learned more about the Catechism simply by having to go ahead and look into it more frequently, because of the discussions here and I have learned more in depth about what individual Catholics believe… the reason for that is that during my schooling time there was no questioning at all and I was never questioning much either until I was about 22 years old… One of the reason was that there was not much of a challenge… During my high school years I was a religious authority in my school especially shortly before the final tests… parts of what I had taught in my lessons were actually important for these so people came to me to ask, but never to challenge…It is quite interesting for me to get into topics from a critical point of view and examine the details and it is also challenging… I guess this is why I like CAF so much.
During my time as a Catholic there had never been anybody who would stand up and be interested so far that they would get into a lively discussion with me…
It actually went so far that the Religious Ed teacher wouldn’t even think about questioning my words (and I did test him on some occasions just to check whether or not he would stand up for Catholic teaching and he wouldn’t).
So in a way I learned more because of simple confrontation and different thoughts and I am thankful for that…
I guess that is one of the reasons I try and keep it simple and as non-confrontational as possible (with all of the different points of view that I take). I have seen many people who talked to me getting banned and I surely don’t want to follow them in their fate.
Sometimes I think it is important to go into depths by questioning the facts and looking at the backgrounds.

 

[Janet1983]

Of course she was still very young at the time so she could have been simply immature or it could have been an immature decision of some other kind and later rec’d the so called saved experience which took priority over all she had previously believed. Only she would know and of course God will ultimately be her judge as he will be ours.Carlan
"

Well I wouldn’t call 22 (guesstimating the time when I started getting critical) immature, but you are certainly right in saying that God is the one to judge that.
I think that it takes some time and knowledge to make a mature and educated decision and I am certain that I did. Maybe I did not comprehend it to the full extend when I started out, but I grew more in my faith in Jesus Christ over the past few years.
God has led me to see things I wouldn’t have thought possible just a little while ago and just coming to the US has changed a lot already.
Looking back at Germany I must have looked like a freak when I was in high school. It was not normal to be that religious and I guess that was the reason I stood out of the masses…
Today I live in the so-called Bible belt with a little church on every corner. I guess it’s just different over here, but I am certain that God is doing and accomplishing His work through His people, may the be Catholic or not. God will always accomplish His work and the question is only whether or not we actually take the blessing of having a part in what He does while He is at work around us.

 

[PRmerger]

What is sad is the majority of Catholics cannot tell you what the New Covenant is. Their Church has never taught them.

I’m pretty sure that if I asked any old non-Catholic Christian off the street the majority of them also could not tell me what the New Covenant is, either.

See this page for how many times the Catholic Church teaches about the New Covenant.

what we know is

1. God is the same today as He was in past times
2. God has called a people unto Him so that He may tabernacle within them so that they may be a light unto the world.
3. That this God within us must be sanctified in our hearts so that we know He is seperate from us yet abiding in us to guide us and to lead us --------Has the Catholic Church ever taught this? Yes it has but only a few Catholics have heard.
4. It is this God within us that will do the work that is a greater work.

Amen! That’s a very Catholic posting you just made above!

 

[PRmerger]

Well it is kind of hard to say whether or not I learned more about the Catholic faith after joining CAF because the information here is sometimes rather conflicting and not absolutely clear in its sources… I might however say that I learned more about the Catechism simply by having to go ahead and look into it more frequently, because of the discussions here and I have learned more in depth about what individual Catholics believe… the reason for that is that during my schooling time there was no questioning at all and I was never questioning much either until I was about 22 years old… One of the reason was that there was not much of a challenge… During my high school years I was a religious authority in my school especially shortly before the final tests… parts of what I had taught in my lessons were actually important for these so people came to me to ask, but never to challenge…It is quite interesting for me to get into topics from a critical point of view and examine the details and it is also challenging… I guess this is why I like CAF so much.
During my time as a Catholic there had never been anybody who would stand up and be interested so far that they would get into a lively discussion with me…
It actually went so far that the Religious Ed teacher wouldn’t even think about questioning my words (and I did test him on some occasions just to check whether or not he would stand up for Catholic teaching and he wouldn’t).
So in a way I learned more because of simple confrontation and different thoughts and I am thankful for that…
I guess that is one of the reasons I try and keep it simple and as non-confrontational as possible (with all of the different points of view that I take). I have seen many people who talked to me getting banned and I surely don’t want to follow them in their fate.
Sometimes I think it is important to go into depths by questioning the facts and looking at the backgrounds.

I guess I should have worded my question better.

My question: is there any Catholic teaching that you learned in your youth that you now have thought, "Oh! I didn’t know that’s what the CC actually taught. I thought they said “X”, but after reading the Catechism, I realize they actually taught “Y”

I will say, just from this thread, that it’s obvious you did not know that the CC taught we’re in a spousal relationship with Him through the Eucharist. That’s new to you, isn’t it?

 

[Doxiemom]

Ok, maybe I am making this too simple but here goes:

The catholic church has defined what it calls ‘apostate’. If the catholic church decides that you fulfill that definition of being “apostate” then therefore you are called an “apostate.”

I mean, if you do not accept the catholic church to be all knowing in all things, would you care that you are called apostate by them?

Apostate is only a word.

I simply cannot ever again agree 100% with the catholic church on certain things. I look to Jesus for my answers which He has always provided. He has never failed me and since I have come firm in my faith ( which is far far different than a religion)( read: denomination), I have no more fear of what any one thinks of me.

I do not fear excommunication, for Jesus will never leave me nor forsake me.

I do not fear “mortal” sin for there is only one unforgivable sin and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirt

I do not fear a purgatory with fire and pain for it is the Judgement Seat of Christ and i will be under His gaze( and Pope benedict said that!) and purified so that only those things which remain are pure as gold, silver, and jewels. My sins will be buried in the Sea of forgetfullness never to be remembered now more.

I do not fear the future because i know what the prophets and Jesus Himself said is to come. “fear not!”. I know the ending. I do not need apparartions of mary, not nostrodomus nor mayan calanders. I have the book of revelation of Jesus Christ as told to John.

I do not fear the word apostate. Or heresy. For the Holy Spirit will guide me.

 

[Hisalone]

I’m pretty sure that if I asked any old non-Catholic Christian off the street the majority of them also could not tell me what the New Covenant is, either.
**
I agree, however it was the mission of the Catholic Church to teach it and it has failed. BTW the link has teachings that skirt all around the New Covenant(the altar of the new covenant, the liturgy of the new covenant, the cup of the new covenant) but not on what that covenant is.**

See this page for how many times the Catholic Church teaches about the New Covenant.

Amen! That’s a very Catholic posting you just made above!

LOL

 

[ronin67]

No, the acceptance of Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior is what is needed to receive the loving grace of our Father. Even the Catholic church has said their is salvation outside the church. Who are we as humans to questions the divine grace of God the Father? After all what human or human organization can promise and deliver salvation? None, only Christ Jesus can do this (God in the flesh). You really have to love everything God has done for us. He took it upon himself to come in the flesh to help us. The perfect Father who came down and took it upon himself to get his hands dirty, to understand our suffering as a humans and then give himself up for us. Dying for a creation that really didn’t deserve it. Humans will never truly understand the full and complete love of God, but it doesn’t give us an excuse to stop seeking the pure love he is.

Take Care and May God Bless us all.

Ed

 

[PRmerger]

it was the mission of the Catholic Church to teach it and it has failed

Why do you say that?

Do you say the same thing about the evangelical and pentecostal and baptists churches that also failed to proclaim the Gospel in its entirety?

Also, are you arguing that this concept of the New Covenant take primacy in Jesus’ message? Is that the most important teaching of Scripture?

 

[Carlan]

I simply cannot ever again agree 100% with the catholic church on certain things. I look to Jesus for my answers which He has always provided. He has never failed me and since I have come firm in my faith ( which is far far different than a religion)( read: denomination), I have no more fear of what any one thinks of me.

 

[Hisalone]

Why do you say that?

Do you say the same thing about the evangelical and pentecostal and baptists churches that also failed to proclaim the Gospel in its entirety?

Also, are you arguing that this concept of the New Covenant take primacy in Jesus’ message? Is that the most important teaching of Scripture?

The primacy of Jesus message is the gospel, the good news of Christ His death, burial and resurrection. That we have been saved by Christ if only we believe.

When God made a covenant with Noah He said He would never again destroy the world with a flood. When He made a covenant with Abraham He promised a nation, a people and a blessing to all nations. The covenantwith Moses God promised prosperity and blessing.

The primacy of the message of these covenants was that God is soveriegn.

So what is the New Covenant?

 

[Carlan]

I’m pretty sure that if I asked any old non-Catholic Christian off the street the majority of them also could not tell me what the New Covenant is, either.

See this page for how many times the Catholic Church teaches about the New Covenant.

Thanks for that PR, I had been looking and couldn’t find it before your post helped.Carlan

 

[PRmerger]

The primacy of Jesus message is the gospel, the good news of Christ His death, burial and resurrection.

Amen! Again, a very Catholic post!

That we have been saved by Christ if only we believe.

Amen! And also…

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By his Cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

Can we cut any one of these out of the list and proclaim it alone as the means of salvation? Can we be saved without faith? Without God’s grace? Without repentance? Without baptism? Without the Spirit?

The Answer:

These are all involved and necessary; not one of them can be dismissed as a means of obtaining eternal life. Neither can one be emphasized to the exclusion of another. They are all involved in salvation and entry into the Church. **The Catholic Church does not divide these various elements of salvation up; overemphasizing some while ignoring others; rather, she holds them ALL in their fullness." **Source: Steve Ray (bold mine)

 

[PRmerger]

So what is the New Covenant?

It’s the marital relationship between God and His people, in which our sublime consummation of our ONENESS with Christ is made manifest in the Eucharist.

 

[mpjw2]

just in case you missed it guanophore , I responded to you in 1008.

To anyone…did I get it right this time??