do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[guanophore]

Janet I am Catholic and I agree with you 100%

Although the faith you have expressed here at CAF is not Catholic, for once I am also in 100% agreement with you.

 

[distracted]

It is wonderful that Janet and has found this intimate relationship with Jesus after leaving Catholicism and also the others who have turned away and found the same thing amongst the thousands of small groups of Christians separated from the whole church.

Never the less,Jesus wants his flock all joined together in Him. He wants us all one in him his one body. As PM said in an earlier post we are all his beloved. It breaks his heart that we are separated,when members of his one body break away. Yes they are Christians and they love Jesus as Janet has described, but don’t you see they have separated themselves from his body which is the church he started and gave to the twelve to pass on to us down through the ages, His family, his Kingdom one in him, Unity.It is all about Jesus working in his whole body the Church. It is not just Jesus and me and my little group of believers. Carlan.

well said except for one thing: They don’t have Christ, really. ***They have some warm, fuzzy feeling for Christ… BIG difference…

the Real Presence of Christ abides in the Catholic Church and ONLY There… ***

 

[distracted]

Although the faith you have expressed here at CAF is not Catholic, for once I am also in 100% agreement with you.

I’m not… .

People can have some kind of thing with Jesus without being Catholic but they ARE, objectively speaking SEPARATED from Him when they are separated from His One True Church…

No lengthy theological dissertations are necessary… this is only logical…

its like saying that a person reading your letters and talking to you… but living (and STAYING) 4000 miles away knows you as well as someone who lives with you 24/7/365 Forever

 

[distracted]

I know, I was one of them! There has been a great deal of poor catechesis and misunderstanding. Wolves came in among the sheep. The smoke of hell wafted into the windows of the Church. However, this does not meant that Jesus failed to presere the one holy deposit of faith He entrusted to the Church.

Some of us, whose responsibility it was to study and understand the Apostolic Faith failed to do so, and went astray.

Some of those who were astray were then allowed to teach, which in turn, caused others to turn astray. The fault of such persons, however, is not the fault of the Church.

well said.

the Church has far from failed…

failure woiuld be It Doesn’t Exist Anymore… which is waht the Masons want (and the Protestants, of course)…

Strange how it exists still and even thrives… with those kinds of foes…

more people join the Catholic Church every year than any other…

 

[ron77nyc]

well said except for one thing: They don’t have Christ, really. ***They have some warm, fuzzy feeling for Christ… BIG difference…

the Real Presence of Christ abides in the Catholic Church and ONLY There… ***

Are you only repeating what you heard from someone else?
I know many Protestant Christians. They pray for their children and God answers their prayers. They pray for the sick and God answers their prayers. How can you make such a statement?

 

[Janet1983]

Yes, I’m talking about the Church being the bride of Christ, but I’m also talking specifically about YOU, as the CCC calls it in, “the spousal character of the human vocation in relation to God” (I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 2 Cor 11:2)

Yes, I know and we are waiting for the bridegroom and we do not know the day or the hour and we have to be prepared like the virgins…

So do you think your church is the pure and undefiled Bride of Christ, Janet? Is that an accurate description of your “bride”? Even if it’s not an institution but is a “spiritual body”–do you recognize these Christians who are part of the church as being with spot or blemish?

Yes and no.
First of all I am of the opinion that my church is the true Church of Christ. I am however not talking about a worldly institution. We might put ourselves into different groups and denominations and call ourselves Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Pentecostals or whatever comes to mind… Christs visible Church is however the true believers all together.
If you look around you will find believers and hypocrites sitting right next to each other in the pews like the tares among the wheat and you will find that in every church… A sacrament or any other act of obedience is not going to change that fact. You cannot make somebody a true believer by sprinkling some water over their head when they are a few days old.
Those true believers are still sinners, so don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that Christians are perfect people. We are however striving to be like the Lord, to be more like God wanted us to be, to be more like Jesus Christ.
When we surrender our lives to God (some call that “getting saved”) there is a change that takes place. We become children of God and able to please Him. We still sin, but before this decisive step we did not do anything but sinning.
For an unregenerate person even the good deeds are just things to boost their ego, while true Christians do what they do to honor the Lord. We still sin, but we are now aware of the sin in our lives and we are aware of it when we do it so that we can try and not do it again with the help of God.
The true church is not like human society. The true Church are believers who live for the Lord in their everyday lives and every day anew.
We are like the virgins that were prepared. The oil is the Holy Spirit that is in us and working through us… When the bridegroom comes we will be let in and will celebrate with Him.

 

[distracted]

Are you only repeating what you heard from someone else?
I know many Protestant Christians. They pray for their children and God answers their prayers. They pray for the sick and God answers their prayers. How can you make such a statement?

uh…

because i have been outside the Church and inside both???

 

[guanophore]

First of all I am of the opinion that my church is the true Church of Christ. I am however not talking about a worldly institution. We might put ourselves into different groups and denominations and call ourselves Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Pentecostals or whatever comes to mind… Christs visible Church is however the true believers all together.
If you look around you will find believers and hypocrites sitting right next to each other in the pews like the tares among the wheat and you will find that in every church.

I think you have it backwards, Janet. the mystical body that comprises all believers is invisible.

 A sacrament or any other act of obedience is not going to change that fact. You cannot make somebody a true believer by sprinkling some water over their head when they are a few days old.

Sacraments are only for believers, so you are right, going through motions of faith with no faith will not help. You are in error about baptism. It is immersion, or pouring, not sprinkling. You are parroting anti-catholic rhetoric.

Jesus never said babies could not be baptized.

When we surrender our lives to God (some call that “getting saved”) there is a change that takes place. We become children of God and able to please Him. We still sin, but before this decisive step we did not do anything but sinning.

It is an error to believe that Christians have to sin.

The true Church are believers who live for the Lord in their everyday lives and every day anew.
We are like the virgins that were prepared. The oil is the Holy Spirit that is in us and working through us… When the bridegroom comes we will be let in and will celebrate with Him.

It is very Catholic of you to say this!

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, I know and we are waiting for the bridegroom and we do not know the day or the hour and we have to be prepared like the virgins…

Well, yes and no. We are all waiting for the Bridegroom…but Catholics receive Him at Mass, in the sublime consummation of their One Flesh Union through the Eucharist. How magnificent is that??!!

Which, again to bring us back to your question, is why Protestants have a friendship with Christ, but Catholics have the marriage. There is no way for you as a Protestant to consummate your marriage with Christ except through the Eucharist.

 

[nlm]

well said.

the Church has far from failed…

failure woiuld be It Doesn’t Exist Anymore… which is waht the Masons want (and the Protestants, of course)…

Strange how it exists still and even thrives… with those kinds of foes…

more people join the Catholic Church every year than any other…

I find a statement saying that Protestants would like the RCC to fail so strange. Do you honestly think all we do is sit and discuss the demise of the RCC? I can tell you, honestly, since becoming a Protestant 7 years ago, I have NEVER heard the words “Roman Catholic Church” spoken in our church building, at meetings, Bible studies nor from the pulpit.I have however ,heard our Pastor quote Mother Theresa, Bishop Fulton J.Sheen and Pope John Paul ll on more than one occasion.I cannot speak for all Protestant denominations but ours respects and prays for Christians and non-Christians in our community, or city, or country and around the world.
May I ask the reference which brings you to say more people become RC’s every year than any other? It may be so, I have no idea. I have read on the CAF, statements saying that the number of Protestant denominations in the world is growing very rapidly. 30 or 40 thousand I think were the numbers quoted.Where would at least some of those people be coming from? It is impossible to think I am the only RC in the past 7 years to leave.
I can only speak for my corner of the world, and wether or not the RCC is thriving or failing is not for me to say but we are seeing the amalgamation of numerous parishes and the closing of many churches because of low attendance, inability to keep up with the expenses because of the low attendance and the lack of Priests. I know this, not because our Ministers have told me, but because I watch the news on TV. It is a matter of public record.
I know very little about the Masons but Protestants are your brothers and sisters in Christ. We all pray the same Prayer ,Christ Himself gave us.God Bless! NLM

 

[Carlan]

Well, yes and no. We are all waiting for the Bridegroom…but Catholics receive Him at Mass, in the sublime consummation of their One Flesh Union through the Eucharist. How magnificent is that??!!

Which, again to bring us back to your question, is why Protestants have a friendship with Christ, but Catholics have the marriage. There is no way for you as a Protestant to consummate your marriage with Christ except through the Eucharist.

Amen PR. We in the Church pray for that Union to happen.Our Lord Jesus Christ longs for it. Carlan

 

[Janet1983]

Sacraments are only for believers, so you are right, going through motions of faith with no faith will not help. You are in error about baptism. It is immersion, or pouring, not sprinkling. You are parroting anti-catholic rhetoric.

Well call it pouring or sprinkling, it does not make too much of a difference… I am not parroting anything, I just name what I see. A little bit of water going over a baby’s head to be dried off again… Call it sprinkling or pouring…
Presbyterians and Reformed Christians call it sprinkling, you seem to call it pouring and in German it has an even different term (of course, but then I could be even more specific and would know better).
In the end it is all the same: It is not an immersion, but a little bit of water over an infants head (no need to get a pool or a river for that purpose).

It is an error to believe that Christians have to sin.

I never said they had to… I just said that they will, because we as Christians are not perfect yet. To completely stop sinning we will have to do the last step in our earthly journey and that is to pass away and meet our maker.

 

[guanophore]

In the end it is all the same: It is not an immersion, but a little bit of water over an infants head (no need to get a pool or a river for that purpose).

The Church teaches that a pool or a river is the fullest sign of baptism. In it, we are united to Christ in His death.

I never said they had to… I just said that they will, because we as Christians are not perfect yet. To completely stop sinning we will have to do the last step in our earthly journey and that is to pass away and meet our maker.

Good.

Glad to hear that. We are, by God’s grace, able to completely stop sinning.

 

[smask63]

I understand that the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that any monotheistic (worships the One true Living God) moral-living person can enter heaven. I also believe in the church that JC founded and his promise that no matter how much evil arises within the church, it will never be brought down. “…and the powers of evil will never prevail over it.” Christ promises that His church will last forever and that His Spirit will be guiding it. It makes sense to me that not everybody has somebody in their life who can positively make them see the truth that Jesus and his church is our way to heaven. Others do have somebody able to explain the truth to them and they still just can’t find faith because something still doesn’t make complete sense to them. Jesus’ blood covers even those people who “just don’t understand” the faith. He died for ALL mankind. I think people need to remember that “God is love” and all loving people can be saved. It is not our decision to say who can and who can’t be saved. We can judge whether certain behaviors are moral or immoral depending on what Jesus and his Church teaches, but the ultimate judgment of our eternal destination belongs to God. The Bible (1 John) says that “No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.” I think this is referring to some false teachers who were denying the true humanity of Jesus. Some “gnostics” were refusing to believe that Jesus took on a second nature, human nature, and that he actually died on the cross. So while 1 John is emphasizing the actual life and death and resurrection of JC in order to teach us the truth, anyone who confesses “love” and acts on love in their daily lives is a true follower of Jesus’ way.

 

[ron77nyc]

So while 1 John is emphasizing the actual life and death and resurrection of JC in order to teach us the truth, anyone who confesses “love” and acts on love in their daily lives is a true follower of Jesus’ way.

That’s what Oprah Winfrey, Marianne Williamson and all New Age followers are preaching while also promoting teachings that contradict the teachings of Jesus.

 

[guanophore]

That’s what Oprah Winfrey, Marianne Williamson and all New Age followers are preaching while also promoting teachings that contradict the teachings of Jesus.

You hit that nail on the head! Reminds me of an old song “all we need is love”…

 

[smask63]

Actually, that’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches. Look it up. I do not follow New Age teaching but rather Catholic teaching. Anybody who is full of love and loves as Jesus Christ loved us has the promise of Jesus Christ because that promise was made to ALL mankind.

 

[smask63]

What a fantastic song, “All We Need Is Love”! Just imagine, if everybody had love and loved as JC loved us, we wouldn’t be living in this sinful world! And if human kind wasn’t sinful, Jesus wouldn’t have had to die for us; everybody would be in a state of grace with God.

 

[ron77nyc]

Actually, that’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches. Look it up. I do not follow New Age teaching but rather Catholic teaching. Anybody who is full of love and loves as Jesus Christ loved us has the promise of Jesus Christ because that promise was made to ALL mankind.

That’s for people who are outside the reach of the Church. God also saves and forgives people who are not loving.

 

[ron77nyc]

What a fantastic song, “All We Need Is Love”! Just imagine, if everybody had love and loved as JC loved us, we wouldn’t be living in this sinful world! And if human kind wasn’t sinful, Jesus wouldn’t have had to die for us; everybody would be in a state of grace with God.

No one is able to love the way Jesus loved. That’s why He became our substitute for the punishment we deserve. Our best human falls short of what is required to obtain eternal life. Moses offered his own life as a sacrifice for the sins of his people and it was not acceptable.