Do you/would you carry a concealed firearm to Mass?

[JoshuaIsLord]

Two Swords (22:38)

Let’s look at verse 38 next, before we conclude with verse 37.

“The disciples said, ‘See, Lord, here are two swords.’
‘That is enough,’ he replied.” (22:38)

What does Jesus’ reply mean? “Enough” is the Greek adjective hikanos, “sufficient, adequate, large enough.” While it could mean, “Two will be sufficient at this time,” it very probably means "That’s enough of this conversation."

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

Numbered with the Transgressors (22:37)

The most important sentence in this passage, however, isn’t about swords. Jesus quotes Isaiah and applies the quotation directly to his own mission:

“It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me.’ Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” (22:37)

Jesus has been speaking about preparing for the dangers ahead for his disciples. For Jesus, the danger will end in death, in fulfillment of scripture. Jesus is quoting from the last verse of a wonderful passage in Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12 describing the redemptive ministry of the Suffering Servant who takes upon himself the sins of others. The full verse from which Jesus quotes reads:

“Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.” (Isaiah 53:12)

Jesus speaks to his disciples of a hostile world in which they are to spread the Gospel. Jesus dies alongside two thieves. But in his death he offers atonement and forgiveness: “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing” (Luke 23:34).

Hence: Scripture Must Be Fulfilled in Jesus

 

[SuperLuigi]

Americans live in fear of each other, and fear is an absence of love.

Most people do not.

If we obeyed the greatest commandments, there would be no shootings.

If only we did this, government should do this…

Problem is people are always doing things they ought not to.

And it’s a big reason why Catholic teaching supports self-defense.

 

[dvdjs]

I think that such action is forbidden in the Christian East.
Moreover, clergy may never carry arms in or out of the temple.

 

[Vonsalza]

SaintMirror:

without addressing the underlying reasons for their situations seems incredibly arrogant and uncompassionate

what do you see as the underlying reason for their situation?

what can be done to eliminate their situation?

Honestly?

We have to bring back the work that uneducated people can do. We’ve exported all of it to Asia, and now they don’t have jobs they can do.

Those that can have flooded into colleges, and as a result we’ve seen the value of a degree basically freeze for the last 20 years, with a few exceptions.

Now will this raise prices? Sure it will. But we have to give these people their work back.

 

[Shakuhachi]

But good points you make.

Perhaps if we could all just be more kind.

 

[marybobo]

I know for sure that there are at least three gentlemen with CC that attend the same Mass I do.

 

[upant]

Luk 22:36 Then said he to them, ‘But, now, he who is having a bag, let him take it up, and in like manner also a scrip; and he who is not having, let him sell his garment, and buy a sword,
Luk 22:37 for I say to you, that yet this that hath been written it behoveth to be fulfilled in me: And with lawless ones he was reckoned, for also the things concerning me have an end.’
Luk 22:38 And they said, ‘Sir, lo, here are two swords;’ and he said to them, ‘It is sufficient.’

this is a conversation and what most people miss is that there isn’t a break in the conversation for action. when Jesus tells his disciples to buy a sword, they don’t say, “ok it is on the list.” no, they say lo here are two swords. where did these swords come from? obviously some in the group had the swords handy.

why is only two swords enough?

i think the church has it right on this. it is ok to defend your self (two swords) but to take up arms (take the sword) as an overt act of aggression is wrong.

which is reinforced in this passage

Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword

 

[ucfengr]

Situational awareness is for soldiers in combat situations. People who are living ordinary lives aren’t suppose to be waiting for a Die Hard scenario to develop. You’re not suppose to be in a partially elevated state of mind at all times. You should be thinking about things like work, friends, family, God, spaghetti, cherry cheesecake, a hot shower, a good book, etc. Worrying about a mass shooter is like anticipating a meteorite or a lightning bolt to strike you.

It seems eccentric to me to wonder through life blissfully unaware of what’s going on around you. How do you cross the street without getting hit by a car?

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Thank you, yes, we need more kindness.
And, we need more than just superficial friendliness.
People’s sanity doesn’t usually break all at once. There is a little slippage here, a little neurosis there. An isolated person can usually hold it all together for awhile, hiding it from co workers and bosses, and presenting well to the outside world. Same thing with families in crisis–there’s usually a chain of events that happens before it becomes visible to the outside world, but the simple cure of having people around, friends that they trust, to reality-check with them, can help blunt some of the pain and dysfunction.
Most mental health issues never rise to the level of mass shooting, but they’re excruciating to the sufferers who live lives without love and relationships.
For instance the kid who has no friends.
The mass shooters are the tip of the iceberg of a way deeper problem.

 

[EleanorArr]

It seems eccentric to me to wonder through life blissfully unaware of what’s going on around you. How do you cross the street without getting hit by a car?

I think the point is that of course everyone needs appropriate situational awareness (such as when crossing the street as you so rightly say). But that a) the likelihood of being in a motor vehicle accident of some kind is many, many times higher than being caught up in a mass shooting, so spending time worrying about a shootout is, statistically, not with the time, especially when so doing isn’t going to make anyone feel better about anything (just see everyone else with suspicion), and b) surely it’s a travesty that anyone should have to be thinking about ‘what i’d do if that guy over there starts blazing away at people’, in the first place?

 

[ucfengr]

Perhaps you should talk to your local school board because they are spending thousands of dollars every year conducting “active shooter drills” to try to beat some situational awareness into students and teachers. Obviously those administrators live in some kind of “Die Hard-ian” fantasy world where school shootings actually happen and the Vice Principal is John McClane.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Perhaps you should talk to your local school board because they are spending thousands of dollars every year conducting “active shooter drills” to try to beat some situational awareness into students and teachers. Obviously those administrators live in some kind of “Die Hard-ian” fantasy world where school shootings actually happen and the Vice Principal is John McClane.

One has to ask whether the benefit of these drills exceed the cost. One of the problems is that people often overestimate the probabilities of rare events, which explains why lottery ticket sales can be very brisk.

 

[ucfengr]

Would you say the same thing about fire drills? School fires are pretty rare too.

 

[DaveBj]

Our county sheriff’s department is holding a seminar on church security this weekend. They are recommending that 3-4 people from every church attend. I copied the notice to our pastor and asked if our parish was sending anyone. Haven’t heard back yet, but it’s been only a few minutes.

From today’s press conference by the various law enforcement agencies investigating Sunday’s church shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas, we learned that First Responders arrived at the church four minutes after the first 911 call. Four minutes – that’s 240 seconds.

Tick . . . tick . . . tick . . . tick . . .

It has never been more starkly illustrated that when seconds count, help is only minutes away.

D

 

[Duesenberg]

Yes they are. But they can pierce quite nicely.

You can’t slice with one.

It depends if one has a foil or saber KofC sword. Mine is a saber. It has a sharp edge.

 

[Duesenberg]

Perhaps you should talk to your local school board because they are spending thousands of dollars every year conducting “active shooter drills” to try to beat some situational awareness into students and teachers. Obviously those administrators live in some kind of “Die Hard-ian” fantasy world where school shootings actually happen and the Vice Principal is John McClane.

Wow, you’re really projecting! There is nothing wrong with making the effort that one day might result in the saving of lives.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Would you say the same thing about fire drills? School fires are pretty rare too.

I would say that most fire drills are overkill as well.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

It depends if one has a foil or saber KofC sword. Mine is a saber. It has a sharp edge.

Nobody I know has a Saber. We all have foils if that is what you call them.

 

[Duesenberg]

I would say that most fire drills are overkill as well.

That’s a ridiculous retort. It’s remarkable what peoples’ hatred and fear of firearms will make them post.