Do you/would you carry a concealed firearm to Mass?

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Duesenberg said:
I am stunned by their misinterpretation/misapplication of the quotes.
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Who made you the majesterium? How about just accepting that some people disagree with you and keeping it at that? What Jesus meant in certain situations is certainly debatable. I am not defending anyone’s interpretation, but I find it interesting that you seem to be fixated on the idea that there is one morally appropriate position here and that no dissent is allowed.
 
Duesenberg said:
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Eric_Hyom:
I am not sure why you should be stunned when people quote the bible on a Catholic forum.
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I am stunned by their misinterpretation/misapplication of the quotes.
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All the law of God hangs and depends on the greatest commandments, these laws are about caring for our neighbour in a loving way.
 
Yes our population is 1/9th of the US (it’s about 35 million last I heard), but I was referring to per capita homicides. Regardless, our cities are not homogeneous. Toronto and Vancouver both have varied immigrant populations. My suburb of Burnaby is only 40% white (and then 30% Chinese-Canadian, and the remainder a mixed bag). Half of the population of Vancouver proper were born outside of Canada. …but it’s true that most of the diversity is educated immigrants.
 
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Well, Jews and Orthodox would - on average - lean in favor of gun control.

Evangelical Christians - in the US - would be pro-gun on average. My family & extended family are all pro-gun to my knowledge.

On an international scale, Catholics strongly lean in favor of gun restrictions. Spain, Portugal, France, Poland, and Italy do not have a gun culture. The Philippines does not have a gun culture. Quebec does not have a gun culture. Latin America has thousands of people & children dying from American guns, but the general population does not have America’s gun culture.

There’s really nothing you ought to be shocked about. Like I have already said: America’s eccentric attitude on guns is unique to America and it is not linked to the Catholic faith. Do you think I am making this up?

I expected from the beginning of this thread that nobody’s mind would be changed, since this is an issue that is deeply rooted into people, often from childhood. But you might at least ask yourself how much your affection/hobbyist relationship with firearms could be affecting your views. Maybe you don’t want to be convinced.
 
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TK421 said:
I expected from the beginning of this thread that nobody’s mind would be changed, since this is an issue that is deeply rooted into people, often from childhood. But you might at least ask yourself how much your affection/h
obbyist relationship with firearms could be affecting your views. Maybe you don’t want to be convinced.
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What I find interesting is that there seems to be a totalitarian nature in some defenders of the second amendment. Someone gets the idea that people should bring weapons to church and anyone who argues against it is either anti-gun or weak or have some other morally problematic trait. The idea that reasonable people can have differences of opinion gets lost. There are some anti-gun folks with similar attitudes as well, to be fair.
 
Duesenberg said:
No, it’s called talking smack because one is angry.
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As Ron used to say: There you go again. I am not angry in the least, I am just pointing out a pattern to your posts. I am amazed at how some posters here seem to lack introspection and don’t seem to appreciate the insights of others. If you don’t want my help for you to become a better person, it doesn’t affect me.
 
Duesenberg said:
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Eric_Hyom:
All the law of God hangs and depends on the greatest commandments, these laws are about caring for our neighbour in a loving way.
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I cannot think of a more loving way than defending their lives.
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We are asked to love and to pray for our enemies, but do we have to shoot them dead first?
 
Duesenberg said:
It’s certainly nothing more than that.
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Well of course, once you say something it is the unquestionable truth. You make false accusations against other posters and when presented with concrete evidence to the contrary, you double down.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
We are asked to love and to pray for our enemies, but do we have to shoot them dead first?
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We are also asked to “defend life.” The Church makes a very big deal about it when it comes to the pre-born. Does this message not extend to older humans?
 
Duesenberg said:
We are also asked to “defend life.” The Church makes a very big deal about it when it comes to the pre-born. Does this message not extend to older humans?
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There is nothing in Church teaching that requires us to carry guns. That decision is left to our prudential judgments. Just because someone doesn’t carry a gun does not mean they don’t care about defending life.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
We are asked to love and to pray for our enemies, but do we have to shoot them dead first?
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If Maria Goreti had a gun, she might be alive which certainly would be a good thing. One the other hand, perhaps she wouldn’t be a saint and perhaps her killer wouldn’t have eventually repented. So perhaps she was protecting lives by not carrying a gun. Clearly there are several sides to this question.
 
In the Luke 22 passage, Jesus indicates that he is speaking about different circumstances. These quotes are taken from the New American Bible Revised Edition (an officially approved translation).

Instructions for the Time of Crisis.

35v He said to them, “When I sent you forth without a money bag or a sack or sandals, were you in need of anything?” “No, nothing,” they replied. 36w He said to them,* “But now one who has a money bag should take it, and likewise a sack, and one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one. 37For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, namely, ‘He was counted among the wicked’; and indeed what is written about me is coming to fulfillment.”x 38Then they said, “Lord, look, there are two swords here.” But he replied, “It is enough!”*

Here is a footnote on the same page: * [22:36] In contrast to the ministry of the Twelve and of the seventy-two during the period of Jesus (Lk 9:3; 10:4), in the future period of the church the missionaries must be prepared for the opposition they will face in a world hostile to their preaching.

These passages are difficult to be sure. But, again, we always have to remember the context.

God bless you.
 
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Duesenberg said:
I didn’t say that. Please don’t try to spin what I said. What I said was:

I am all for mentally ill people not being allowed to own firearms. But they must be adjudicated as mentally ill.

I am very much against taking away a constitutional right without due process! This is the USA, not Saudi Arabia!
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I am in agreement. The mentally ill must be adjudicated.
 
twf said:
A huge part of it is cultural. America has a very strong gun culture - for better or for worse. Most of the developed world does not have this pro-gun mentality (other than hunting enthusiasts).
Here in Vancouver I don’t know anyone who carries a gun… yet Canada’s average homicide rate is half of America’s (per capita).
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national rates provides an incomplete picture. it is better to localize your numbers to see how safe you really are.

for example: (dates are the latest i found)
edmonton thru sept 23 had 4.28 homicides per 100,000 people.
phoenix thru sept 1 had 3.7 homicides per 100,000 people.
winnipeg thru sept 23 had 2.97 homicides per 100,000 people.

of course
baltimore 60.6
detroit 33.8
chicago 27.9
 
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