Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[steve-b]

I am not Billy Graham’s judge, steve-b. God is. Not all Protestants convert and become Catholic.I am content just knowing that God gave him the grace to understand our beliefs and teachings.

What does Billy do then

1. with all the passages in scripture, that condemn division from Our Lord’s Church and those that do it and keep it going? He was in such division
2. with the teaching on the Eucharist and warnings to those who don’t partake?
3. with the teaching on mortal sin and no guarantee private prayer forgives that sin.

 

[I_trust]

I do accept all Catholic teaching. But I also know that not everyone views the Catholic Church as I do. Because I have seen, experienced and lived with the teachings of both sides, I have a unique perspective of things. What you see as me contradicting my own faith tradition is in reality, me showing understanding about Protestant preaching and teaching. I don’t have to agree with the way they preach and teach to understand it.

I would prayerfully ask you to study the Catholic Church’s teaching on this matter.
I believe that you do want to believe all that the Catholic Church proposes for belief.
Why would God desire that anyone be deprived of the Eucharist?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH”

Paragraph 3. The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic…

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: “For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God.”

 

[lilypadrees]

Already know what the Church teaches on this.

But thank you, anyway.

 

[lilypadrees]

He did his part in bringing people together by bringing them to Christ.

Even tho you find it hard to believe, many Protestants are content in their own churches and see no reason to leave.

The conversion of hearts is His domain.

 

[I_trust]

I had the utmost respect and admiration for Billy Graham.
He was a friend of Saint John Paul 11 and Archbishop Sheen.

I do not think anyone can say that God did not call him to be Catholic.
Imagine how many souls would have followed him into full communion with the Church had he converted.

I do know that if he is now in heaven, he has now been fully incorporated into the Catholic Church.

 

[lilypadrees]

I do not think anyone can say that God did not call him to be Catholic.

If God had called him to be Catholic, he would’ve converted. God called him to do His Will as a Southern Baptist. He remained Southern Baptist until his death.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Why then if we should not submit to either Catholics or Protestants but to Christ’s teachings does the Catholic Church refuse His body and blood to non-Catholic believers? No matter how much of the Gospel is accepted and preached, refusing His body and blood is never justified?

Why would a believer want the Catholic Eucharist but still wish to be a non-Catholic?

Is that not a harlot?

I don’t understand the harlot part. Is it a Catholic Eucharist or is it Jesus’ Eucharist? Was Jesus a Catholic?

 

[mcq72]

This is a very troubling statment! I hope you dont use it when you are discipling those who are searching for God.

Only when delving into areas heavily reliant on “tradition” relative to writ, or areas we should not tread,…areas not relating to basics of Nicene Creed?..areas beyond basics of preaching (to lost souls)

 

[steve-b]

I do not think anyone can say that God did not call him to be Catholic.

lilypadrees:

If God had called him to be Catholic, he would’ve converted.

steve-b:

Ya mean like Jesus own disciples He gave the bread of life discourse to, and they left Him over it, saying to Him, it was too hard to listen to?[Jn 6:66]

Think about the Jn 6 bread of life discourse. Just because one is said to be a “disciple of Christ" in that Jn 6 discourse, does it mean those "disciples” had faith necessary to take in the whole message. Jesus said Himself, He knew in advance they (those disciples) who left , had no faith sufficient enough to believe AND obey. Jn6:60-66 RSVCE - The Words of Eternal Life - Many of his - Bible Gateway There are some dire consequences for them not receiving the Eucharist. Jn6:22-69 RSVCE - The Bread from Heaven - On the next day - Bible Gateway

Billy knew that was there.

lilypadrees:

God called him to do His Will as a Southern Baptist. He remained Southern Baptist until his death.

There is another paragraph from Lumen Gentium http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_c...entium_en.html that addresses this topic.

Paragraph 28 (for space I had to use a fraction of the text)

“…Because the human race today is joining more and more into a civic, economic and social unity, it is that much the more necessary that priests, by combined effort and aid, under the leadership of the bishops and the Supreme Pontiff, wipe out every kind of separateness, so that the whole human race may be brought into the unity of the family of God.”

lilypadrees,

that means NO prelate in the Church EVEN THE POPE, nor in extension, any Catholic layperson in general, is to encourage in any way, or tell one who is separated from the Catholic Church, that their separateness from the Catholic Church is OK. Nor tell them their separateness from Our Lord’s Church is from God, or no big deal, or say just be a good separated brother/sister of whatever stripe, and the Church says they are okay…

I Pray for Billy’s soul and all those separated from the Catholic Church

 

[lilypadrees]

You have the right to your opinion and can take it up with God when you meet Him.

 

[steve-b]

You have the right to your opinion and can take it up with God when you meet Him.

lilypadrees

That was NOT my opinion. It was from Lumen Gentium.

 

[MichaelP3]

Understand what? Catholcism or the fact that not all who disagree with Catholicism misunderstand it?

 

[mcq72]

If I don’t give you the truth, I am violating the virtue of charity. I would be withholding truth from you that you need to hear and know. That is NOT got ya on my part. If I deliberately withhold information from you that you need, then THAT comes back on me

Totally agree…let everyone be fully persuaded in their faith…yet it is revealing…“narrow is the way”, and, " there is a way that seems right to every man but…"…

In my opinion and being frank and “responsible”, deominationalism, including the CC, is too broad of a gate ( and perhaps is not meant to be the “gate”, hence the misplaced “got ya’ s”)

 

[lilypadrees]

lilypadrees,

that means NO prelate in the Church EVEN THE POPE, nor in extension, any Catholic layperson in general, is to encourage in any way, or tell one who is separated from the Catholic Church, that their separateness from the Catholic Church is OK. Nor tell them their separateness from Our Lord’s Church is from God, or no big deal, or say just be a good separated brother/sister of whatever stripe, and the Church says they are okay…

Your link does not work, steve-b. So since I am unable to look up the document to see for myself. I’m just going to ask you, "Do you deny that what I quoted above is your opinion?

 

[guanophore]

Someday we will all find out what the truth really is.

Yes, but fortunately, He has not left us orphans, and He has promised to lead us into “all Truth”.

personally think that we would do well to show some respect to Rev. Billy Graham and at least let him be buried before we start claiming that he was never called of God because he was not a Catholic, or that his ministry is based on the standards of half truths.

No one has said any such thing (except yourself). Dr.Graham, God rest his soul, was at devoted servant of the Most High God. He, as well as all such dedicated ministers of the Gospel, stand in the tradition of Apollos.

But do Catholics honor and love the fullness of the Truth? Do we walk around filled with love for the perfect Church we are a part of, which is the Spirit of the Lord Whom we receive?

Not nearly enough! Protestants often do more with less!

I would say no. God does not call any man to a evil. Heresy and schism are evil, and thus it cannot be that God called men to join with heretics or schismatics.

This statement is not consistent with the catechism. It is improper to charge modern protestants with these terms.

 

[Wannano]

Someday we will all find out what the truth really is.

Yes, but fortunately, He has not left us orphans, and He has promised to lead us into “all Truth”.

personally think that we would do well to show some respect to Rev. Billy Graham and at least let him be buried before we start claiming that he was never called of God because he was not a Catholic, or that his ministry is based on the standards of half truths.

No one has said any such thing (except yourself). Dr.Graham, God rest his soul, was at devoted servant of the Most High God. He, as well as all such dedicated ministers of the Gospel, stand in the tradition of Apollos.

---

For your information this thread was carried over from the RIP Billy Graham thread.

 

[ChunkMonk]

This statement is not consistent with the catechism. It is improper to charge modern protestants with these terms.

What changed in the last 100 years that reversed the teaching?

 

[guanophore]

For your information this thread was carried over from the RIP Billy Graham thread.

OIC. Were there posts there indicating such things about this great witness to the Gospel?

 

[guanophore]

What changed in the last 100 years that reversed the teaching?

What teaching was that?

I was observing that you seemed to be referring to modern day protestants using language that did not seem to apply.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

lilypadrees,

that means NO prelate in the Church EVEN THE POPE, nor in extension, any Catholic layperson in general, is to encourage in any way, or tell one who is separated from the Catholic Church, that their separateness from the Catholic Church is OK. Nor tell them their separateness from Our Lord’s Church is from God, or no big deal, or say just be a good separated brother/sister of whatever stripe, and the Church says they are okay…

Your link does not work, steve-b. So since I am unable to look up the document to see for myself. I’m just going to ask you, "Do you deny that what I quoted above is your opinion?

This link didn’t work? http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

then do a google search on Lumen Gentium and see what link DOES open for you.

I quoted from paragraph 28.

Emphasis mine

“…Because the human race today is joining more and more into a civic, economic and social unity, it is that much the more necessary that priests, by combined effort and aid, under the leadership of the bishops and the Supreme Pontiff, wipe out every kind of separateness, so that the whole human race may be brought into the unity of the family of God"

Is there any question?

Who is this directed to?
All priests, bishops, and Supreme Pontiff, and the whole human race

to do what?
wipe out every kind of separateness.

And in context, who are they, that are known as separated?