Does God violate our free will by making us die

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snarflemike said:
I believe the standard Catholic answer would be that without free will, we cannot actually love God, and that God made us to love him (as well as to be loved by him).
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Right, that would not be free will. It demonstrates that our will is contingent upon God’s will and command. If we are made for a purpose, then our will is contingent upon the purpose which God has decreed for us. In other words, according to the Christian faith, we are not autonomous creatures (a rule unto ourselves) but heteronomous creatures (subject to a moral decree that comes from outside ourselves). We may violate that and incur the righteous judgment of God for doing so, but again, that demonstrates that you don’t have free will, but will that is contingent upon God’s will. Also, if you read Psalm 139 for example, all of our days are numbered by God, who retains his ultimate authority as God. In that sense, we don’t have free will. By the way, that isn’t a bad thing, it just reminds us who is the creator and who is the creature who exists by and from God’s grace.
 
Of course I am a Catholic but I do not see Heaven as a reward, rather a place where one can go when they are at peace with God.
 
oliver109 said:
Of course I am a Catholic but I do not see Heaven as a reward, rather a place where one can go when they are at peace with God.
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You have no human responsibility in attaining peace?
Do you expect this peace to be of any permanence?

Why does participation in these good things not concern you in the same way, to the point where you call God into question for them?
 
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I argued that we need to be at peace with God in order to enter Heaven so that we do need to work towards it, what I am arguing against is the idea of death snatching away forever our choice to try and work towards being at peace with God.
 
oliver109 said:
I argued that we need to be at peace with God in order to enter Heaven so that we do need to work towards it, what I am arguing against is the idea of death snatching away forever our choice to try and work towards being at peace with God.
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Love is risky and we have a responsibility to work towards it. God will not force it on you. If you reject a person, there are consequences. As to what literally happens in the moments after death or in the afterlife, all we have is speculation.

Speculation is not going to give you the peace you desire. Ordering your days responsibly is what will bring you to peace with God, by his grace. We are creatures, and creatures can’t call the creator into the dock and demand explanations. We are given a life to live, and that is simply what we have.
Which reminds me of things I have to do.
God bless.
 
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oliver109 said:
I do not see Heaven as a reward, rather a place where one can go when they are at peace with God.
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Matthew 25:21:
“25:21 His lord said to him: Well done, good and faithful servant, because thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will place thee over many things. Enter thou into the joy of thy lord.”
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A lot of what you’ve said in the four/five threads on the “unfairness” of Hell and mortal sin has been based on your own feelings and not the Deposit of Faith (Scripture, Sacred Tradition, etc.). Does that not concern you?
 
I think the OP is suggesting that not dying so soon after committing a mortal sin would give us more time to repent, which we may need.
 
So you say that Heaven is a reward? If you say it is then I agree with you. What I argue is based largely on feelings but also based on the scriptural passage where Christ said we should forgive 70x70 times.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
I think the OP is suggesting that not dying so soon after committing a mortal sin would give us more time to repent, which we may need.
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Can’t tell you the times I said a really wrong thing to my wife, and death comes nonetheless.
Seriously, who knows what happens. The Church teaches that death has a finality to it concerning our disposition. I give my adherence to that, but I have a problem accepting the mechanics of it.
What I do know is that today is the only day I can do something about, and that calls for accepting responsibility.
 
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Our free will refers to our ability to choose right between rights and wrong, not our desires to do anything like fly (or avoid death).
 
We are not guaranteed another year of life, another day of life, another hour of life. We are to live every single moment in friendship with God.

Remember the parable of the wise and foolish virgins? Be wise, be ready because this very day could be your last. Be ready to meet God.
 
Sounds a bit harsh in that God is saying “stray away from me for even one minute and you will never be welcomed into my home” my own father and mother have a lot more mercy.
 
oliver109 said:
even if we mess up we can without a doubt get another chance
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We can, it is called the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Until we die we can always repent.

One moment we will die, we live as if that will be in the next moment. When we decide to reject God in a mortal sin, we immediately run to him and repent. We do not dilly dally around and go to Confession when it is convenient.

Having stood at my spouse’s bedside knowing they were dying and seeing how suddenly it comes, if I were to commit a grave sin I would walk to the rectory and bang on the door at 2 AM to make confession. Thank God my husband did not die in that moment, but, the first call I made, before I dialed 911, was to the priest emergency number for him to rush and hear my husband’s confession.
 
If you refused your parents’ mercy, the analogy would make some sense.
 
oliver109 said:
Sounds a bit harsh in that God is saying “stray away from me for even one minute and you will never be welcomed into my home” my own father and mother have a lot more mercy.
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Yes, but if they tell you that you’re not allowed to touch your phone for 10 minutes and you pick it up one time for only a second, what will they do if they walk in right at that second?
 
oliver109 said:
Sounds a bit harsh in that God is saying “stray away from me for even one minute and you will never be welcomed into my home” my own father and mother have a lot more mercy.
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Thus proving that your understanding of the situation is imperfect. For one thing, do you know, absolutely and with certainty, that God does not offer every person who is in the act of dying in mortal sin one last chance to repent? Unless you know this absolutely and with certainty, then all your objections are meaningless.
 
I agree with you there but there is no teaching anywhere in the church that teaches that God offers everyone in the act of dying a chance to repent, a shame really.
 
Maybe God knows that such knowledge would not be to our benefit.
 
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