Does God violate our free will by making us die

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[2016] The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance and the recompense of God their Father for the good works accomplished with his grace in communion with Jesus.70 Keeping the same rule of life, believers share the “blessed hope” of those whom the divine mercy gathers into the "holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."71
 
We nave no control over when the rain falls outside. What we can do is make sure we have not left our priceless treasures outside to be ruined by the rain, we bring them inside, protect them.

We have no control over when we die. What we can do is make sure we have not left our priceless soul in a state of mortal sin to be ruined forever, we repent of sin, we protect our soul.
 
Technically, yes. The forces of nature do violate our free will.

Whether or not there’s anything to say about that though is another thing. I can’t really be mad that I can’t will myself to fly.
 
I still don’t like to feel vulnerable, that God could wrench the soul outta my body at any moment, I want to have some security that I am in control of my final destiny.
 
Not entitled but rather I was talking about God respecting our liberty because we are told every Sunday that he does.
 
oliver109 said:
how is it omnipotence to choose to live?
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How is your understanding of free will anything other than, or not reliant on, omnipotence?
oliver109 said:
why did God make keeping his commandments so hard, so tedious?
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Did He make it difficult, or is it difficult for other reasons?
oliver109 said:
I am saying we should not die in a state of sin unless we specifically choose to
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At that point, sin becomes the key to never dying.
oliver109 said:
St Isaac of Nineveh said that all of humanities sins are as significant as a handful of sand thrown into the ocean.
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Citation for context?
oliver109 said:
What I am arguing for is the motion that we should have the choice about the scheduling of our death, for many of us death comes very inconveniently.
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What good would that do? Would people truly follow through on repenting? Would those who sin right up until shortly before death even be truly repentant, or are they still hoping to game the system? I actually think this system would be more damaging due to letting people slip into a false sense of security.
oliver109 said:
Sounds a bit harsh in that God is saying “stray away from me for even one minute and you will never be welcomed into my home” my own father and mother have a lot more mercy.
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If one does not end up in heaven, it isn’t because God wasn’t willing to let them in. He just also wasn’t willing to keep them chained to a bed in the basement behind a padlocked door. He let them leave of their own free will. He also gave them everything they’d need to come back if they, of their free will, chose to.
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
Are you sure you want to go down that road?
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😈 🗡️
oliver109 said:
Not entitled but rather I was talking about God respecting our liberty because we are told every Sunday that he does.
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Liberty and total control are not the same thing.
 
You answer that God is willing to let the damned leave of their own free will but I do not see how that is the case when he effectively gives them no choice by removing their free will at the moment of death, we are I agree responsible for our sins but we are not responsible for our deaths in sin, that is the decision of God.
 
oliver109 said:
You answer that God is willing to let the damned leave of their own free will but I do not see how that is the case when he effectively gives them no choice by removing their free will at the moment of death
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Honest question: Owing to how many times this has been addressed in this thread, and owing to how elusive you’ve been to really define what you mean by “free will”, and owing to how you just endlessly repeat this point while refusing to engage substantially to objections, are you here to have an honest conversation, or are you just venting?
 
I wish to have an honest conversation and by free will I mean something that we decide, a choice we make so I do acknowledge that we do deserve Hell and that we have no right to salvation, what I am arguing for is to have God portrayed in a more merciful way, not as someone who tells a sinner “right your time is up now go to Hell because you have failed to repent in the time I have given you” this is the idea that St Alphonsus Liguori had when he wrote about God not pardoning sinners after they have committed a certain number of sins, forget being forgiven 70x7 times, commit 34 sins and you will go to heaven but commit 35 and you will go to Hell. what I don’t understand is the way that in the church we are taught that God has infinite mercy and patience when in reality there really does appear to be a limit to the number of sins we can commit before he chooses not to forgive us.
 
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oliver109 said:
by free will I mean something that we decide
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Ok, then can you address this:
ZMystiCat said:
How is your understanding of free will anything other than, or not reliant on, omnipotence?
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oliver109 said:
what I am arguing for is to have God portrayed in a more merciful way
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Okay, and can you address this concern with letting us choose when to die, which takes the uncertainty of death as a mercy:
ZMystiCat said:
What good would that do? Would people truly follow through on repenting? Would those who sin right up until shortly before death even be truly repentant, or are they still hoping to game the system? I actually think this system would be more damaging due to letting people slip into a false sense of security.
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oliver109 said:
when in reality there really does appear to be a limit to the number of sins we can commit before he chooses not to forgive us
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Who says God is unwilling to forgive those in hell, as opposed to them not seeking it anymore?
 
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I think we can both agree that those in Hell are there simply because God separated their soul from their body at a bad moment, they are there through their own fault but they are also there because God decided to remove the soul from their body and therefore pardoning no more sins, they will no longer be able to be forgiven. The only reason those in Hell are unable to repent is because God has effectively forced the sinner to be wedded to their choice(but vitally not forced the sinner to choose that bad choice) by separating the soul from their body.
 
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oliver109 said:
I think we can both agree that those in Hell are there simply because God separated their soul from their body at a bad moment
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No, we can’t agree on that. “Simply” implies that it is the only cause, which even you see to disagree with, and a “bad moment” implies that there would have been a moment in the future that was “good”, which also isn’t a given.
 
What would the other causes be? perhaps there would be no more good moments in that persons life but that seems still absurdly unlikely if one imagines that persons life to have been a rather ordinary mundane one with acts of good and evil being performed though the evil never being more serious(though still serious in our eyes) than the occasional bad thought or premarital sex. And we still see God separating the soul and thus the soul has to go to Hell and face a much worse existence and for what purpose?
 
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