Does Hell Exist? Pope Francis Says No (Warning: This title is misleading)

[Luke6_37]

It’s really, really sad to see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, declarations of Ecumenical Councils and the witness of the Church Fathers twisted so much in this thread. Right down to the post above. Never have I met a Catholic, let alone any other Christian, that shares the views expressed here by Luke. Jehovah’s Witnesses, yes. Christians? No.

You need to do your homework. Christian theologians of across denominations are reexamining the doctrine of Hell and deciding that Eternal Conscious Torment is inconsistent with the Bible and early church tradition…

Catholic

Decreation: The Last Things of All Creatures

Shared via Kindle. Description: <p>Death is not the end--either for humans or for all creatures. But while Christianity has obsessed over the future of humanity, it has neglected the ends for nonhuman animals, inanimate creatures, and angels. In <i>Decreati...

read.amazon.com

A Catholic Reading Guide to Conditional Immortality: The Third Alternative to Hell and Universalism

Shared via Kindle. Description: Like many other people, the long tradition about hell has been a source of serious confusion and distress for me. Over the past six years or so I was relieved to discover two other alternatives that are also part of the Chris...

read.amazon.com

Evangelical Protestant

Rethinking Hell: Readings in Evangelical Conditionalism

Shared via Kindle. Description: Most evangelical Christians believe that those people who are not saved before they die will be punished in hell forever. But is this what the Bible truly teaches? Do Christians need to rethink their understanding of hell? In...

read.amazon.com

Evangelical - Churches of Christ

The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment, Third Edition

Shared via Kindle. Description: Evangelical Christians affirm together that a dreadful destiny awaits those who reject God's grace throughout life. According to the traditional view, that destiny will involve unending conscious torment in hell. However, bel...

read.amazon.com

Anabaptist - Brethren

https://www.amazon.com/Satan-Problem-Evil-Constructing-Trinitarian/dp/0830815503

Commentary by Grey Boyd - the author of the book above:

Anabaptist - Mennonite
http://mennoworld.org/2015/02/03/the-world-together/giving-up-hell-for-a-year/

My Evangelical friend and I disagree on several things regarding our Christian faith, but I can confidently say (not just because of this thread) that I have more in common with him as far as the orthodox faith goes.

Your Evangelical friend denies two out of the three doctrinal foundations of the Catholic Church and you think you have more in common with him than you do with someone who simply holds a different opinion about the nature of the ultimate fate of souls in Hell and the meaning of eternal punishment and separation from God.

Wow, that’s pretty far off the range…

St Faustinas revelations were private and don’t belong to public revelation.

If they help you to remain true to your faith, then they are useful to you. Read them, but do not set them up as a standard by which to judge the faith of others. The Church does not require anyone to believe them and neither should you.

 

[Agathon]

Christian theologians of across denominations are reexamining the doctrine of Hell and deciding that Eternal Conscious Torment is inconsistent with the Bible and early church tradition

And they’re wrong.

 

[KMG]

Very wrong. Catholic dogma on this point is clear. Luke’s positions on this thread are heretical, plain and simple.

 

[Agathon]

You seem very insecure in your relationship with the Lord. I wish you could just relax a bit and trust that he loves you and things will be fine.

If he didn’t trust God he wouldn’t be sharing his concerns.

 

[Luke6_37]

Very wrong. Catholic dogma on this point is clear. Luke’s positions on this thread are heretical, plain and simple.

And so it has been said before. I will simply reply with the words of a great Catholic theologian of the 20th century who was accused in much the same way by critics who were ultimately proven wrong…

“However, I never spoke of certainty but rather of hope. The three critics, by contrast, possess a certainty, and G. Hermes expresses it with matchless force: “Such a hope does not exist, because we cannot hope in opposition to certain knowledge and the avowed will of God” (318b). It is impossible that “we can hope for something about which we know that it will certainly not come about” (ibid.). Therefore, the closing sentence of the essay declares tersely: “There is no hope for the salvation of all” (320a).” - Hans Urs von Balthasar, Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?: With a Short Discourse on Hell

I hope for the salvation of all, and if that is not possible, that those who are damned experience the eternal punishment of annihilation rather than eternal conscious torment - proving that God is merciful, rather than sadistic.

You should listen to the Pope when he says, “…some who are in the boat with Peter are rowing in the opposite direction”:

 

[Feanor2]

Didn’t Michael Voris invent the lovely term “Church of Nice”?

 

[KMG]

Again, Catholic dogma is very clear on this point. Luke’s views as posted on this thread are not Catholic.

 

[Luke6_37]

Again, Catholic dogma is very clear on this point. Luke’s views as posted on this thread are not Catholic.

Are von Balthasar’s views regarding Universalism Catholic?

 

[KMG]

Your posts on this thread are all over the map, and they display an absolute contempt for Church dogma, for the Fathers, for the Catechism, and for sound Catholic teaching.

 

[Luke6_37]

Your posts on this thread are all over the map, and they display an absolute contempt for Church dogma, for the Fathers, for the Catechism, and for sound Catholic teaching.

I an content to let thinking folks decide that for themselves. I am not forcing my views on anyone, but neither am I going to allow you to attempt to discredit my opinions, which are entirely consistent with the theological tradition of the Catholic Church.

So now why don’t you answer my question…

KMG:

Again, Catholic dogma is very clear on this point. Luke’s views as posted on this thread are not Catholic.

Are von Balthasar’s views regarding Universalism Catholic?

 

[KMG]

No, your views are NOT consistent. You are peddling private interpretations that rely partially on a cursory reading of a theologian you think might agree with you.

Souls cannot be annihilated. Period. That is Catholic dogma. It is heretical to assert that the soul can be annihilated.

 

[Luke6_37]

No, your views are NOT consistent. You are peddling private interpretations that rely partially on a cursory reading of a theologian you think might agree with you.

Souls cannot be annihilated. Period. That is Catholic dogma. It is heretical to assert that the soul can be annihilated.

You still haven’t answered my question…

KMG:

Again, Catholic dogma is very clear on this point. Luke’s views as posted on this thread are not Catholic.

Are von Balthasar’s views regarding Universalism Catholic?

By the way, Balthasar didn’t address Conditional Immortality. If his “hope” of Universal Salvation is realized, it would be a moot point.

 

[KMG]

I don’t answer questions on command. I don’t really care one iota what the theologian in question thinks about hell. The teachings of the Church are absolutely clear and beyond question.

 

[Luke6_37]

I don’t answer questions on command. I don’t really care one iota what the theologian in question thinks about hell. The teachings of the Church are absolutely clear and beyond question.

I guess that means you don’t know what von Balthsar had to say about Universalism, in which case you can hardly criticize me for misrepresenting his views.

That’s fine with me. Perhaps you can now understand why the Pope doesn’t not need to answer questions on command either. Right?

 

[KMG]

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

 

[KMG]

To assert that the soul can be annihilated is heresy.

 

[Luke6_37]

“This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists, it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence.” - (CCC #27)

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

God is love (1 John 4:8)
Through God’s love we are continually held in existence (CCC #27)
The chief the punishment hell is eternal separation from God (CCC #1035)

Then what?
The next line is statement about God. Regarding the ultimate fate of the soul, there is only silence. You cannot claim a dogmatic teaching where there is only silence.

Silence = We don’t know for sure…

 

[KMG]

The soul is immortal. End of story.

 

[Luke6_37]

The soul is immortal. End of story.

Only if you deny that God is Almighty (dogma) - which means there is nothing he cannot do…

“Is the soul which survives death naturally immortal, as in the Greek view, or is this a condition dependent upon one’s ultimate choice for the Father’s will? Most Christians believe that the soul is naturally immortal; CI emphasizes its natural mortality, albeit it’s being “immortable.” Many proofs are given on either side of this question. However, all agree that God, since he has created everyone out of nothing, also has the power to deprive them of existence, whether “naturally immortal” or not. This is one crucial point to keep in mind throughout our discussion: whether the soul is naturally immortal or not does not resolve the question of A.” - Fr. Robert Wild, A Catholic Reading Guide to Conditional Immortality

 

[KMG]

Robert Wild’s book does NOT express Catholic dogma.