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Church_Militant
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I disagree…
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Church_Militant
Guest
Now you are in error…
Why then would Jesus tell the cripled man…“My son your sins are forgiven” There are several such instances in the NT Jesus points this out to the crowd when he heals the man who was lowered through the roof.
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ahimsaman72
Guest
Church Militant:
Given what Jesus said at the end - I would posit that Jesus forgave this person’s sins to prove a point to those surrounding Him. That point being - the bold part below. And, by the way, this should not be a finger-pointing exercise and I certainly didn’t mean to make it come off that way towards you when I posted originally.
- Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
- And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
- Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
I believe when Jesus said we must be born of water and spirit to enter into the kingdom I believe He meant the waters of repentence[Johns] having a repentent heart.,and recieving His Spirit Baptism of the Holy Spirit],which by His power our lives would be transformed and begin to change by the actions we choose,and that was to follow Him and Be like Him.God Bless. Why do I feel like we are going in circles? Why do I feel like I constantly need to repeat myself. Maybe its just not exposed to you. I dont know why? Why is it that Peter was the only one who knew Jesus was God?. Jesus said my Father in heaven chose to reveal it to you[Peter]… Maybe not all truth is not given to those who are not ready to recieve it. Only God knows why? Is it possible that we are both right? As a catholic I believed as you do,because thats how I was taught. No human has taught what I have spoken in my conversation. Only the Holy Spirit has revealed this to me,for He is my teacher. Jesus said I will leave the Paraclete,and He will be your teacher and your helper. These are Gods Words.Why would I doubt what He says. Again,Gods Words speak Truth,its our understanding that is the problem. God Bless.
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Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Oh my goodness!!! You have just perfectly described the Catholic teaching of justification by faith and works (action)!!!
In Christ,
Nancy
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Catholic4aReasn
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Well, he made his opinion very clear anyway. What was missing was any Scripture linking the experience of being born again with the moment one believes.
In Christ,
Nancy
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SPOKENWORD
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ONE SPIRIT? You mean its my catholic teaching that is still in me. Well there is[some] Truth in all christian churches.Oh my goodness!!! You have just perfectly described the Catholic teaching of justification by faith and works (action)!!!
In Christ,
Nancy
God Bless.
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Catholic4aReasn
Guest
And all in one!! (1 Tim 3:15)Well there is[some] Truth in all christian churches.
In Christ,
Nancy
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Catholic4aReasn said:2 Cor. 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sightJoh 20:29* Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."*
In Christ,
Nancy
Thanks Nancy,I wanted Fiat to respond. Yes its by Faith,thats how you recieve it.He couldnt understand how I recieve Gods Spirit. Its by Faith.
I think Fiat got my point. God Bless.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
No, I’m sorry, I didn’t get your point, because for me, to have FAITH, and TO BELIEVE, means believing in ALL that Jesus did, in ALL that Jesus said, in ALL that Jesus commanded. Believing is not just some sort of mental construct or opinion that one affirms himself in. Believing entails something more than what the believers in Acts 19 had.
This is why I’ve been trying to get you to explain to me what you mean by “belief.” So far, you’ve not done that.
In Jesus and Mary
Fiat
No, I’m sorry, I didn’t get your point, because for me, to have FAITH, and TO BELIEVE, means believing in ALL that Jesus did, in ALL that Jesus said, in ALL that Jesus commanded. Believing is not just some sort of mental construct or opinion that one affirms himself in. Believing entails something more than what the believers in Acts 19 had.
This is why I’ve been trying to get you to explain to me what you mean by “belief.” So far, you’ve not done that.
In Jesus and Mary
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
So you want me to explain my what my belief is in Jesus Christ. I believe the holy scriptures are the inspired Word of God,authorative,inerrant,God breathed and that the scriptures contain all instruction necceasary for life and the salvation of man.IITimothy3;16&17.I believe the only way of salvation from mankinds guilt of original sin-the result of the fall of Adam and Eve from grace is-through the attonement,the shed blood of Jesus Christ upon the cross of calvary for the forgiveness of sins and for the reconcilation of man to God. Phil.2;5-11. I believe in water baptism by immersion following salvation and the fellowship of Holy Commnunion-the Lords Supper-the two ordinances that Jesus commands. Acts8;38,1Corint 22-25. I believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit following the works of salvation which is the infilling and enduement of power for Godly living and for service with the physical evidence of speaking in tongues. Acts2;24. These are some of the things I believe. I hope this helps.God Bless.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
Thank you. That does help. You said:
In faith,
Fiat
Thank you. That does help. You said:
How does the salvation part come in exactly?
In faith,
Fiat
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
I actually was not baptised until a year later. I first recieved my gift of salvation by getting on my
knees before the Lord and told him I was truely sorry for all the sins I committed . I then asked Jesus to come into my life and be the Lord of My life. I totally submitted my life over to Him, At that point I was consumed by His love and His forgiveness. I could see the Holy Angels around me taking notes. They were my witnesses,for then they took thier notes into the throne room and presented the notes to the High Angel in charge. The High Angel then took out a book from the shelf and began to write my name in this book of life and wrote all my sins I ever had committed in it. The High Angel then took a piece of cloth and dipped it in the Blood of Jesus Christ,and the Angel began to wipe clean every sin I had committed. When the Angel was finished the only thing left on those pages were my name. The angel then took the book and put it back on the shelf when it will be pulled out again on judgement day. Praise God for His Mighty Angels. Thats how I know I have been saved. God Bless.
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Fiat
Guest
Dear SPOKENWORD:
Thank you for sharing that. I truly appreciate it!!! I was born and raised in an anabaptist church. My church had customs similar to the Amish, and in fact many people confused us with the Amish, even though we had electricity and cars. When I went to my first Catholic mass, I sat next to a woman clutching her rosary. I could see in her eyes her desire to conform her life to Christ and to the message of Our Lord’s salvation. I remember hearing the prayers of the mass for the first time and being immediately carried away spiritually. I kept returning and returning to that little Catholic Church. I could see Jesus Christ at the alter, offering Himself to me; extending the mercy and atonement in His flesh and blood. Years later, when I decided to convert and made my first confession, I remember cowering in the confessional, knowing that Jesus was there with me, listening to me tell Him all of my sins; begging for His mercy and His forgiveness. I remember my first Holy Communion and the tremendous feeling of peace…one that transcends our understanding.
Your brother in Christ
Fiat
Thank you for sharing that. I truly appreciate it!!! I was born and raised in an anabaptist church. My church had customs similar to the Amish, and in fact many people confused us with the Amish, even though we had electricity and cars. When I went to my first Catholic mass, I sat next to a woman clutching her rosary. I could see in her eyes her desire to conform her life to Christ and to the message of Our Lord’s salvation. I remember hearing the prayers of the mass for the first time and being immediately carried away spiritually. I kept returning and returning to that little Catholic Church. I could see Jesus Christ at the alter, offering Himself to me; extending the mercy and atonement in His flesh and blood. Years later, when I decided to convert and made my first confession, I remember cowering in the confessional, knowing that Jesus was there with me, listening to me tell Him all of my sins; begging for His mercy and His forgiveness. I remember my first Holy Communion and the tremendous feeling of peace…one that transcends our understanding.
Your brother in Christ
Fiat
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MariaG
Guest
Hi:wave:
I just wanted to thank you. For your friendship and your honesty.
From my point of view though, it is not troubling at all. Much of what was written down, was written to clarify that which had been spoken of. Baptism and being born again did not need clarification because the teaching was simple and understood, hence not much needed to be written about it.
It is hard to sometimes remember, but Scripture was not written as a handbook for Christian beliefs, but rather a clarification of beliefs that had been preached. If nothing needed to be clarified on a subject, there was little written.
Around 200ad you had clarifications like, “no you cannot deny infant baptism until the 8th day” and stuff like that.
I pray you will think on this point more.
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
Sorry, I have been caught up in other posts and kind of lost track of this one.
I just wanted to thank you. For your friendship and your honesty.
From my point of view though, it is not troubling at all. Much of what was written down, was written to clarify that which had been spoken of. Baptism and being born again did not need clarification because the teaching was simple and understood, hence not much needed to be written about it.
It is hard to sometimes remember, but Scripture was not written as a handbook for Christian beliefs, but rather a clarification of beliefs that had been preached. If nothing needed to be clarified on a subject, there was little written.
Around 200ad you had clarifications like, “no you cannot deny infant baptism until the 8th day” and stuff like that.
I pray you will think on this point more.
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
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MariaG
Guest
Actually, I am glad you did answer because it kind of feeds from the other question. Since I lost this thread for awhile, I am going to open myself up to the possibility of error.
I do not have time to find it, but doesn’t the Bible speak of only one Baptism? Or is that just in the creed? Someone help me out!
uhoh
times up crying children,
God Bless,
Maria
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MariaG
Guest
Actually, I have experienced it. Although I received an infant baptism, I was not raised in the Church. As an adult, I went to several different Protestant churches, none of which believed baptism was more than a symbol. As a result, I went through a baptism as an adult. It was several months after I had already given my heart to Christ. I had a more amazing experience when I gave my heart to Him than at my second baptism. I will say I felt very peaceful after. I had also spilled pop on my shorts. After my full immersion baptism in a river, the stain was gone. When I remarked on it, we all laughed at the great symbolism that was.
But after coming back to the Catholic Church, I did get confirmed. Now THAT was amazing. The complete and utter joy was the most absolutely wonderful thing in my life.
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Hi Maria. In Ephesians chapter4 vs 5 it says one baptism. I also believe that rebaptism as an adult is not acceptable in the Rcc,. What the catholic church does is combine water and spirit baptism as one together as it should for there is only one baptism and one spirit.God Bless.
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MariaG
Guest
Hi Spokenword:wave:
Yes I do know that the Catholic Church does not rebaptize. But I could not find the Bible verse talking of one baptism and so did not know if it was Scripture or Tradition. Thanks for finding the Bible verses
But this brings up an interesting point. According to your beliefs, infants do not need baptism. If we are only supposed to have one baptism, was not the early church teaching falsehood then by teaching infant baptism?
I mean why baptize an infant if it is just a symbolic, public declaration that should only happen once? If baptism is not regenerative, ie only a public declaration, then the appropriate time would be an older child or an adult. But that is not what the early church in 200ad practiced and taught.
How could the early church be wrong in such a basic belief? Either
baptism= born again
or born again is a choice made past the age of reason when we choose to follow Christ by asking Him into our hearts with baptism only being a public declaration, a symbol of our rebirth.
Respectfully, Both cannot be right. So was the early church wrong in 200ad?
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
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