Don't Hate Me. I Am Going To A SSPX This Sunday

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Pope John Paul II said that the SSPX are in schism. A Pope trumps a Cardinal, last I heard.

The Pope has the authority to decide who is or is not in communion with him. He calls the shots. That’s what he’s there for.

 

[CradleCath]

LR:

You’re confusing Validity with Licity. An example in mundania.

 

[KathleenElsie]

As a Latin Mass lover and attendee myself, I would encourage you to attend a Novus Ordo Mass in a church in communion with the Vatican when you are unable to attend the TLM in a Roman Catholic church that is in communion with the Vatican … When circumstances do not permit me to attend Latin Mass downtown, I go to a reverent Novus Ordo. Surely one exists in your vicinity?

PAX ET BONUM,

~~ the phoenix

 

[ProVobis]

T
As for “if it’s valid it’s legal,” the Masses celebrated in the Orthodox Churches are valid. A Mass celebrated by an excommunicated “liberation theology” priest is valid. But absolutely NO Mass celebrated by a priest not in Communion with Rome is legal. It’s canon law; look it up.

The only canon law I see on this is “Can. 1248 §1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.”

Perhaps there are others which I missed?

 

[ProVobis]

So, your saying,“The last 40 years has been the FALSE Faith”?

(

Seeing that most were calling the Old Latin Mass abrogated, I would say the acceptance of the Novus Ordo was based on false pretenses. However, I am NOT saying it isn’t valid or that you don’t have a perfect right to it. But whether your faith has been false or not, no one but you and God can be the final judge of that.

 

[kathielee]

Actually that’s not true. First of all, he may assist out of attachment. No other reasons have been approved. Next, neither Castrillon-Hoyos nor Perl said that it fulfills the Sunday obligation for all. No matter how hard you all try, no teaching can be supplied that says one can do so.

The Nebraska diocese has stated clearly that association with SSPX is not acceptable. What I’m wondering…does anyone have a document that shows what Pope Ben says on it? Kathie

 

[ProVobis]

What I’m wondering…does anyone have a document that shows what Pope Ben says on it? Kathie

I seemed to recall some clarifications were going to be made around Easter and it may have addressed the current status of the four SSPX bishops but I have not heard anything yet.

However, it’s Pope Benedict to us Catholics. The other Ben that we talk about is not even close to being Pope.

 

[kathielee]

Oh well now…I don’t know…why don’t you ask the thousands of traditionalists out there, who have been fighting for the faith for the last forty years? I am sick, sick, sick to death of the continual false accusations of “schismatic” being applied to the SSPX…why don’t you be honest and apply it to the true schismatics?

I am sick of the word traditionalist. We are either lay faithful to the Magisterium or we aren’t. Kathie

 

[kathielee]

I seemed to recall some clarifications were going to be made around Easter and it may have addressed the current status of the four SSPX bishops but I have not heard anything yet.

However, it’s Pope Benedict to us Catholics. The other Ben that we talk about is not even close to being Pope.

Ooops, used to seeing some peopel say Pope Ben. I don’t like that either. So, I will correct myself…Pope Benedict XVI Kathie

 

[ProVobis]

The Nebraska diocese has stated clearly that association with SSPX is not acceptable.

Here’s something I found from traditio.com/tradlib/indults.txt

"[Even in the face of all these acts on the part of The Honolulu
Six, the Vatican decreed that the six did not commit the crime of
“schism” and declared that the bishop’s action in “excommunicating” them
was null and void. Subsequently, the bishop was removed from office by
the Vatican on a morals charge.

[In clear violation of the Vatican’s decree, the Bishop of Lincoln,
Nebraska, later threatened with “excommunication” any Catholics in his
diocese attending the Traditional Latin Mass at independent and SSPX
chapels. Although the threat was given much publicity, the bishop in
the end backed down when his bluff was called and declined to take any
such illegal action.]"

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I am sick of the word traditionalist. We are either lay faithful to the Magisterium or we aren’t. Kathie

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Sadly - as shown by some here - you can be a traditionalist but not be faithful to the Magisterium.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Seeing that most were calling the Old Latin Mass abrogated, I would say the acceptance of the Novus Ordo was based on false pretenses. However, I am NOT saying it isn’t valid or that you don’t have a perfect right to it. But whether your faith has been false or not, no one but you and God can be the final judge of that.

Ohh the whole Vatican LIED to us?? DECEIVED us??

Don’t think so.

Abrogated or not a new ordinary form to be used by the whole Church was moved in and the TLM was moved out.

 

[SenorSalsa]

Really? How am I encouraging the poster to attend an SSPX Mass when the poster decided at one time or another that he"is going?"

You Novus Ordo folks believe that the barbarians that murdered the archbishop in Iraq a few other days ago “believe in the same, one true God” and are willing to kiss the Koran (some physically, some by word), but Heaven forbide saying something nice about a priest saying Mass in a pious manner. That’s anathema sit.

Thats because “those barbarians” do believe in the same one true God. And I AM willing to kiss the Koran with words, and would do so physically, becuase it would mean one step closer to peace with them. Lets not forget that Catholics were once “those babarians” too, lets not forget we went on several crusades, or the Inquistions. Some Muslims may not be perfect followers of Islam, but some Catholics arent perfect followers of Catholicism either. Dont blame the Belief for peoples actions.

 

[palmas85]

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Sadly - as shown by some here - you can be a traditionalist but not be faithful to the Magisterium.

Equally true of progressives.

 

[Mickey_Jackson]

Thats because “those barbarians” do believe in the same one true God. And I AM willing to kiss the Koran with words, and would do so physically, becuase it would mean one step closer to peace with them. Lets not forget that Catholics were once “those babarians” too, lets not forget we went on several crusades, or the Inquistions. Some Muslims may not be perfect followers of Islam, but some Catholics arent perfect followers of Catholicism either. Dont blame the Belief for peoples actions.

To use a more recent example, how about those butchers in Croatia who, against direct orders from Pope Pius XII, exterminated millions of Orthodox who refused to convert?

Muslims worship the God of Abraham. They have a greatly flawed perception of Him, but in the modern age the way to bring the True Faith to them is through compassion and understanding. As Bp. Fulton Sheen said, we should encourage and foster the devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary that already exists among Muslims, trusting that her Immaculate Heart will lead them to her Son.

But, that’s a topic for another forum.

 

[palmas85]

Thats because “those barbarians” do believe in the same one true God. And I AM willing to kiss the Koran with words, and would do so physically, **becuase it would mean one step closer to peace with them. ** Lets not forget that Catholics were once “those babarians” too, lets not forget we went on several crusades, or the Inquistions. Some Muslims may not be perfect followers of Islam, but some Catholics arent perfect followers of Catholicism either. Dont blame the Belief for peoples actions.

So in essence you would deny or denigrate your faith in order to achieve peace? Many in the early Church denied the faith in order to escape persecution as well.

Sounds like pretty much the same thing if you ask me.

 

[dyspepsic]

Ohh the whole Vatican LIED to us?? DECEIVED us??

Don’t think so.

Abrogated or not a new ordinary form to be used by the whole Church was moved in and the TLM was moved out.

The Pope will be visiting the U.S. very soon. I assume that he will use the N.O. form, and that will put to rest all the claims of the TLM crowd.

 

[dyspepsic]

Really? How am I encouraging the poster to attend an SSPX Mass when the poster decided at one time or another that he"is going?"

You Novus Ordo folks believe that the barbarians that murdered the archbishop in Iraq a few other days ago “believe in the same, one true God” and are willing to kiss the Koran (some physically, some by word), but Heaven forbide saying something nice about a priest saying Mass in a pious manner. That’s anathema sit.

You don’t have the power to declare ‘anathem sit’ to anyone.

The SSPX questioner/poster is already an SSPX person. The whole question is a subtefuge to keep the question alive.

 

[ProVobis]

The Pope will be visiting the U.S. very soon. I assume that he will use the N.O. form, and that will put to rest all the claims of the TLM crowd.

So what’s your point? I would go and wouldn’t think twice about which form he used.

 

[Ghoti]

I haven’t read everything from the Traditio site, but they strike me from what they write as being schismatic. Well, at any rate, they call the “Novo-Ordinalists” “Newchurch”, say that “Newchurch” is in schism, and that Novus Ordo is both invalid and illicit. They refer to the Novus Ordo mass as a “mess” and refer to the Blessed Sacrament thereof as a “cookie” or “kookie”. They seem to support SSPV and SSPX, but oddly don’t seem to claim to be sedevacantists.

I don’t think I would necessarily trust what they would have to say on this topic due to their particular axe to grind.