Dow Hits 30,000 First Time

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An awful lot of funny money since 2009. Even more this year. Never before seen zero interest rates. Don’t cry for the 1% they got theirs. The 10% mostly did ok too if they kept their 401k’s, 403b’s and IRA’s. All that funny money funds the wealth transfer from us to them. Last time that happened we got the beginnings of the progressivism that is now bringing us to a cancel-based culture to mask its own failures. Where to from here? Your guess is as good as mine.

For the rest of us, they can print money, but they can’t print the economy. Those empty storefronts? They can’t be printed back into existence, there is no abracadabra for that and I don’t care how many MMT fans wave their hands and tell me I’m not getting it. This lockdown was bad to ruinous for many not in the upper quartiles. Witness the food bank lines, the modern day equivalent of the bread lines of the 1930’s.

Thank goodness the Fed have not delved into negative rates as the ECB has. No private party is foolish enough to buy a negative rate bond unless they can find a greater fool to buy it from them for a capital gain. So the ECB is now the sole market for that paper so the next step they’re contemplating is the cancellation of hard currency. Could that come here? I keep saying this won’t end well, but to quote Keynes, the insanity can last longer than one can remain solvent.

One more: the absurdly low interest rates staying so low for so long have killed the pensions both here and in Europe. Many public pensions here have gotten in trouble in recent years and are now expecting Biden to bail them out. No good will come of that as the proper lessons that needed to be learned from the pension debacles will never be learned. So that has been another factor in Dow 30,000, the pensions being forced to buy more securities or engage in other questionable investments that I might fire my adviser for.

More popcorn, please.
 
I mostly agree with this. The gap between the 1% and everyone else is getting shocking - like 1920s shocking or worse. But maybe more important is the gap between the 10% and everyone else. Take a look at gains in productivity per worker versus changes in real income. Also look at CEO salaries as a multiple of average worker salaries.

I am reminded of the old saying “pigs get fat, but hogs get slaughtered.” The income and wealth gap is not sustainable. You are correct that the negative impact on pensions will become larger, and more problematic, as the population ages. This is fixable (in my view), but if its not fixed a correction is coming.
 
For the rest of us, they can print money, but they can’t print the economy.
This. Most people aren’t concerned with inflation these days, but I think it’s a serious problem that nearly a quarter of US dollars in circulation were created this year. What the Fed is doing simply isn’t sustainable.

I sold off half my stock portfolio today. We’ll see what happens.
 
The income and wealth gap is not sustainable.
In what way? I frankly don’t care what Bezos or the others make. I care about what my family makes. My income has never even approached 6 figures, but we live very comfortably. We are truly blessed.
It isn’t the comparison to the wealthy that matters because it isn’t a zero sum situation.
The last 4 years have seen incomes rise across all brackets. That’s what matters.
 
In what way?
When productivity is soaring, as it has been for the last two decades, and workers are no better off, at some point the social compact breaks. Workers are the source of value in most companies. Workers understand that they do not make what the owners and managers make, but the 1% and 10% cannot continue to get richer and richer while leaving those that produce that value behind. At some point, the workers will insist on a change.
 
This is an honest response, and I appreciate it. I say so because it is frustrating that so many with right-wing or libertarian social views twist themselves in pretzels arguing that their view is somehow consistent with the Church. I, too, disagree with the Church in some areas, but I try to be honest about it.
Catholics are not obliged to agree with the opinions of their parish priests, bishops, or popes. They are obliged to follow doctrine.
 
Catholics are not obliged to agree with the opinions of their parish priests, bishops, or popes. They are obliged to follow doctrine.
I am not talking about the opinions of priests, bishops or popes. I am talking about Catholic doctrine.
 
I am not talking about the opinions of priests, bishops or popes. I am talking about Catholic doctrine.
Which doctrines are conservative Catholics twisting themselves into pretzels over?
 
Which doctrines are conservative Catholics twisting themselves into pretzels over?
There are many threads here about the social doctrines of the Church, and I don’t want to divert the thread too much. The short answer is most of the social doctrine of the Church, beginning especially with the Universal Destination of Goods, and pretty much everything that follows from it (which is pretty much all of the Church’s social doctrine).

Note - I am not talking about all conservatives (especially given that term’s meaning is unclear in the current US political climate). I am talking about conservatives that cleave to a Randian world view, most libertarians, so-called “pure free market” folks, “unbridled capitalists,” that sort.
 
When productivity is soaring, as it has been for the last two decades, and workers are no better off, at some point the social compact breaks.
Workers were improving over the last four years before the Covid. They were improving because of an improved market atmosphere. Lower taxes, reduced regulation, improved trade deals.
Workers understand that they do not make what the owners and managers make, but the 1% and 10% cannot continue to get richer and richer while leaving those that produce that value behind.
The best way for that to happen is for government to stay out of the way as much as possible and keep markets free and fair.
At some point, the workers will insist on a change.
That’s what collective bargaining is for.
 
Most people aren’t concerned with inflation these days,
Price and wage inflation are somewhat flat. Oil prices are as well and that hampers jobs. As are commodity prices which prevent farmers from making profits. However the Fed can create monetary or paper inflation which can drive up GNP numbers or stock prices or home prices. That seems to make people happy.
 
That would be relevant if my state had actual borders on each side. As it is the governor and mayors are powerless to prevent the spread of the virus within the country. Those at the top need to display leadership skills necessary to control the spread.
 
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As it is the governor and mayors are powerless to prevent the spread of the virus within the country.
Everyone is powerless to prevent the spread. It is a virus. Viruses spread. This is why Trump’s decision to focus on vaccines and therapeutics, after getting PPE’s out, showed great leadership.
 
Everyone is powerless to prevent the spread.
Especially when he or she is told it’s a hoax and not bother with distancing.

(You used the singular so I replied with same.)
 
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JonNC:
Who said that?
Seriously?
Seriously. I know that Trump rightly referred to the Democrat response to the administration’s handling of the virus a hoax, but I’ve not heard anyone actually call the virus a hoax, though I’m sure some have.
 
Will miss everyone on world news, enjoyed our discussion and learned a lot

God bless!
 
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