Drinking alcohol and smoking pot – what are your thoughts?

[Mickey]

A buzz would be feeling the effects, but still having control of your faculties.

A marijuana buzz is a high. It is the intoxication from THC. It cannot be modestly administered.

This is permitted with alcohol, it’s the point of drinking alcohol socially.

A glass of wine at dinner or for medicinal puposes (some of the Fathers recommend mixing a small amount with water) does not cause a “buzz” or intoxication. But a very small amount of marijuana will get you high.

Getting high is the equivalent of getting drunk, intoxicated to the point of diminished or lost control.

I do not think I have seen anyone “lose control” from smoking marijuana…even after mutiple joints of powerful weed. But I have seen people very “buzzed” after just a couple hits…leading to sloth and gluttony.

One can easily use pot to the point of feeling an effect without loss of control. If that is permitted for alcohol, it stands to reason that it is permitted for pot.

It stands to reason? Nonsense. Pot cannot be administered and controlled like alcohol. We know that a couple of drinks is a limit. But you can take one hit of most of the weed that is out there today…and you are out of your mind high.

 

[Ghosty]

Again, Mickey, the marijuana I used was the modern stuff, and after a couple of hits it was no different for me than having a couple of glasses of wine with dinner. That amount of effect simply makes me merrier (though I much prefer the feel of light alcohol, which is why I don’t use pot), and I don’t lose my senses or self-control, which is the cut-off for moral drinking. Past two glasses of wine and I get impaired in my reasoning ability. I’ve been buzzed, and I’ve been high out of my mind, and there is a world of difference in my experience.

The reason I know the exact amount of alcohol I can have before getting drunk is that there is a regulated standard of measurement for alcohol. These new laws provide the same standards for marijuana, so you won’t be getting a highball of scotch when you think your getting a sip of Bud Light. This will make it easier for people to avoid “drunkenness” with marijuana.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Mickey]

the marijuana I used was the modern stuff, and after a couple of hits it was no different for me than having a couple of glasses of wine with dinner.

The “modern stuff” is very potent. A couple hits and you’re very high. In fact, even in my day (30 years ago) it was very potent. So again, Ghosty…perhaps you were smoking parsley.

That amount of effect simply makes me merrier

Merrier? Most of the clergy would classify it as sinful.

I’ve been buzzed, and I’ve been high out of my mind, and there is a world of difference in my experience.

High is high. You cannot control the effect of THC…especially with the high potency of marijuana.

Funny…I can’t seem to picture a Patriarch or the Pope saying that it is okay to catch a buzz on THC level controlled cultivated marijuana…but only four hits…because any more will be tantamount to getting drunk.

Whether you like it or not…marijuana smoking will always be considered sinful by the majority of clergy.

Oh…let’s also not forget smoke damage to the lungs.

 

[Sky_Pilot]

Your OP is titled “What are your thoughts?”
Mine:
I don’t do either.
A matter of choice.
Coffee, now, that’s a different story … after 21 years under the siren I can swill a half gallon of the stuff in a shift, hit the rack and sleep like a rock!
(Until the kidneys conspire to wake me, of course! )

 

[Ghosty]

Merriment is the definition of responsible alcohol use from Scripture. I don’t know a single clergyman who would or could call it sinful generally, since God made wine for that purpose according to Psalms.

The threshold for sin that is generally put forth in Catholic teaching is this one

catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33231

That is for alcohol, but it is quite possible to pot and not cross this threshold.

Some people have a low tolerance, and some plants are stronger than others, just as with alcohol. That’s why the boundary is set at the effect and not the amount.

And I can assure you that it was not parsley.

Peace and God bless!

 

[epan]

I’ve been to various Protestant churches…some discourage drinking, others prohibit it, and still others have no problem with it. I believe Catholics drink just like me. Since marijuana is now legal in Washington and Colorado, and medical marijuana is legal in many states, what do you believe about drinking and smoking pot?

MJ is not legal in any state by Federal law.

I don’t use it, or alcohol, as it could impair my ability to work in an emergency. So, in my case, even a small amount could make a big difference for someone. My general stance, is that moderation is the key.

Marijuana remains illegal due to the tremendous amounts of money to be made. An anecdote… one of my relatives makes a living by growing marijuana. His income is about $40K per month for a couple of hours of work per day. He is small time, just growing what is legally allowed in his state. Recently, a field was found in California with 21,000 plants. At a wholesale value of $2K per plant… and a crop cycle of two months… that is more than $240 million per year.

 

[Ghosty]

Your OP is titled “What are your thoughts?”
Mine:
I don’t do either.
A matter of choice.
Coffee, now, that’s a different story … after 21 years under the siren I can swill a half gallon of the stuff in a shift, hit the rack and sleep like a rock!
(Until the kidneys conspire to wake me, of course! )

That amount of caffeine would be sinful for me, as it would be like snorting cocaine. I’d be figety and paranoid, and likely have heart problems from it.

People in our society forget that caffeine is actually a powerful and highly addictive drug, we just have a higher tolerance for it since it was encouraged during the Industrial Revolution. IIRC, there were similar discussions about the morality of coffee when it spread to Europe, because people hadn’t developed a tolerance for it yet and its effects were quote strong for the uninitiated.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Christian_Unity]

That amount of caffeine would be sinful for me, as it would be like snorting cocaine. I’d be figety and paranoid, and likely have heart problems from it.

People in our society forget that caffeine is actually a powerful and highly addictive drug, we just have a higher tolerance for it since it was encouraged during the Industrial Revolution. IIRC, there were similar discussions about the morality of coffee when it spread to Europe, because people hadn’t developed a tolerance for it yet and its effects were quote strong for the uninitiated.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Mickey]

Merriment is the definition of responsible alcohol use

But not weed smoking. That is considered to be a sin. And most clergy will tell you that.

Some people have a low tolerance, and some plants are stronger than others, just as with alcohol.

It’s not a matter of tolerance. THC cannot be controlled. Today’s pot is potent. Once the drug attaches to the brain receptors…you are high…intoxication has arrived. With alcohol one beer equals one shot of hard liquor equals one glass of wine. You know what you are getting.

That’s why the boundary is set at the effect and not the amount.

No. You are inhaling a drug into your lungs (which you never addressed). In most states it is illegal. In all states it is still illegal federally…but even more importantly…its intoxicating effects cannot be controlled…and 99% of clergy will tell you it is a sin to smoke it (the exception being a few around your abode).

I have heard many attempts to justify smoking weed over the years. The common ones are comparisons to alcohol and cigarettes and caffeine. I have a friend who tries to say that God is responsible for growing the plant so we should smoke it. A protestant I know says that it is not denounced in the Bible…so it is okay. The evil one is trying really hard. Don’t fall for it.

Ghosty can justify it if he so chooses and if his conscience is at peace with such a stance. But I will repeat that everyone should ask their spiritual father/confessor before listening to Ghosty…because most clergy do not take his position.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

The reason I know the exact amount of alcohol I can have before getting drunk is that there is a regulated standard of measurement for alcohol. These new laws provide the same standards for marijuana, so you won’t be getting a highball of scotch when you think your getting a sip of Bud Light. This will make it easier for people to avoid “drunkenness” with marijuana.

Peace and God bless!

I don’t think drunkenness should be measured by some government regulation (not saying I’m against regulations, but that whether someone is actually drunk can’t be measured by a law). I think it varies from person to person, so one person could be “drunk” under the legal limit and another over.

 

[Ghosty]

I don’t think drunkenness should be measured by some government regulation (not saying I’m against regulations, but that whether someone is actually drunk can’t be measured by a law). I think it varies from person to person, so one person could be “drunk” under the legal limit and another over.

I agree completely. My point is that I can say that two drinks is my limit because the government has a regulation about labling how much ethyl alcohol is in drinks. Two mugs of beer, two wine glasses, and two shots of whiskey are my personal limits, but Iwouldn’t know that with exact certainty without knowing the alcohol content of the drinks, and that comes from regulation.

Mickey: We can know the amount of THC in plants and quantities of pot, and from that a person can know how much is too much. These new laws require testing of THC levels and clear labling of THC content, something that isn’t done on the black market.

As for your claim that the Bible only speaks of alcohol, this is true, but my point is that drinking to the point of merriment is lauded in Scripture as a gift of God, so the state of “merriment” is not sinful. Since merriment is not evil, it can’t be used against marijuana use.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Porknpie]

I agree completely. My point is that I can say that two drinks is my limit because the government has a regulation about labling how much ethyl alcohol is in drinks. Two mugs of beer, two wine glasses, and two shots of whiskey are my personal limits, but Iwouldn’t know that with exact certainty without knowing the alcohol content of the drinks, and that comes from regulation.

Mickey: We can know the amount of THC in plants and quantities of pot, and from that a person can know how much is too much. These new laws require testing of THC levels and clear labling of THC content, something that isn’t done on the black market.

As for your claim that the Bible only speaks of alcohol, this is true, but my point is that drinking to the point of merriment is lauded in Scripture as a gift of God, so the state of “merriment” is not sinful. Since merriment is not evil, it can’t be used against marijuana use.

Peace and God bless!

How about inhaling paint fumes or gasoline? If I get merriment out of doing so…it is moral?

teens.drugabuse.gov/facts/facts_inhale1.php

If you’ve ever come across a smelly marker, you’ve experienced an inhalant. They seem harmless, but they can actually be quite dangerous. Inhalants are chemical vapors that people inhale on purpose to get “high.” The vapors produce mind-altering, and sometimes disastrous, effects. These vapors are in a variety of products common in almost any home or workplace. Examples are some paints, glues, gasoline, and cleaning fluids. Many people do not think of these products as drugs because they were never meant to be used to achieve an intoxicating effect. But when they are intentionally inhaled to produce a “high,” they can cause serious harm.

 

[Mickey]

We can know the amount of THC in plants and quantities of pot,

It does not matter. Marijuana works very differently on the human body. Marijuana is a hallucinogen. No matter how much “the all wise govermnet” attempts to regulate THC, you will still be high…and hence slothful…and gluttonous…and hurting your lungs.

my point is that drinking to the point of merriment is lauded in Scripture as a gift of God, so the state of “merriment” is not sinful. Since merriment is not evil, it can’t be used against marijuana use.

My point is the state of merriment can’t be described as a gift from God regarding the consumption of marijuana …because smoking marijauna is sinful (according to most clergy in your Church…and mine).

 

[Ghosty]

How about inhaling paint fumes or gasoline? If I get merriment out of doing so…it is moral?

teens.drugabuse.gov/facts/facts_inhale1.php

If you’ve ever come across a smelly marker, you’ve experienced an inhalant. They seem harmless, but they can actually be quite dangerous. Inhalants are chemical vapors that people inhale on purpose to get “high.” The vapors produce mind-altering, and sometimes disastrous, effects. These vapors are in a variety of products common in almost any home or workplace. Examples are some paints, glues, gasoline, and cleaning fluids. Many people do not think of these products as drugs because they were never meant to be used to achieve an intoxicating effect. But when they are intentionally inhaled to produce a “high,” they can cause serious harm.

I don’t know much about inhalents so I won’t speak on the matter.

What I will say is that if any substance use impairs the use of reason then it is sinful, legal or not.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Mickey]

How about inhaling paint fumes or gasoline? If I get merriment out of doing so…it is moral?

Yeah…that does seem to be his implication, eh?

 

[Mickey]

I don’t know much about inhalents so I won’t speak on the matter.

You are an expert on the morality of marijuana. You INHALE marijuana smoke deep into the lungs! You said it causes you “merriment.”

So if airplane glue gives you a buzz and causes you “merriment”…is that okay by you?

 

[Ghosty]

It does not matter. Marijuana works very differently on the human body. Marijuana is a hallucinogen. No matter how much “the all wise govermnet” attempts to regulate THC, you will still be high…and hence slothful…and gluttonous…and hurting your lungs.
My point is the state of merriment can’t be described as a gift from God regarding the consumption of marijuana …because smoking marijauna is sinful (according to most clergy in your Church…and mine).

This is a circular argument and doesn’t stand. The thing that is immoral in Catholic teaching is impairing reason, not the use of a substance per se.Furthermore there is no set teaching on the sinfulness of marijuana in the Catholic Church.

You simply assert that marijuana use impairs reason immediately and without question, but I assert that this is not borne out by my experience nor that of people I know who use it. Beyond our counter-assertions there isn’t much to discuss, since your argument against marijuana depends on your personal experience and not anything that can be confirmed or denied.

Peace and God bless!

 

[april32010]

This is a circular argument and doesn’t stand. The thing that is immoral in Catholic teaching is impairing reason, not the use of a substance per se.Furthermore there is no set teaching on the sinfulness of marijuana in the Catholic Church.

You simply assert that marijuana use impairs reason immediately and without question, but I assert that this is not borne out by my experience nor that of people I know who use it. Beyond our counter-assertions there isn’t much to discuss, since your argument against marijuana depends on your personal experience and not anything that can be confirmed or denied.Peace and God bless!

fascinating document Catechism of the Catholic Church

                      2291    The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life.Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

 

[Mickey]

The thing that is immoral in Catholic teaching is impairing reason

Getting high not only hurts your lungs and kills brain cells (hence the short term memory) but it also impairs reason…so what is the circularity of which you speak.

I see you still have not addressed the issue of inhaling smoke deep into the lungs.

Furthermore there is no set teaching on the sinfulness of marijuana in the Catholic Church.

CCC 2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.

You simply assert that marijuana use impairs reason immediately and without question

** You** simply assert that it is moral in moderation even though the majority of the clergy in your Church would say otherwise.

Beyond our counter-assertions there isn’t much to discuss, since your argument against marijuana depends on your personal experience and not anything that can be confirmed or denied.

I’ve got the majority of clergy in the Catholic and Orthodox Church on my side. What do you have aside from an obstinate insistence that smoking pot in moderation is moral…and perhaps a priest or two near Seattle.

 

[Mickey]

fascinating document Catechism of the Catholic Church

Ah…ya beat me to it. But I am sure this will be explained away also.