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ucfengr
Guest
I think subjecting my teenaged son to the possibility of prison rape is a pretty extreme punishment and one that I would be hesitant to use. It certainly wouldn’t be my first course of action.
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Kelly
Guest
So submitting your preschool daughter to further molestation by her teenage brother is a better alternative?
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Walking_Home
Guest
Your PM box is maxed.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Hmm, it seems people could use this “punishment is worse than the crime” argument to justify not reporting ANY crimes of sexual abuse that fall short of actual rape, even when adults are the perps.
BTW, Josh would have been charged as a juvenile, and while that system is no fun to be part of either, it’s not as if he’d have thrown into prison with “Bubba who’s serving 20 years to life”. From what I understand he may not even have gotten any “time” at all.
Anyway, your comments suggest that you just don’t think what Josh did was any big deal, you essentially think that it is within the norm of male sexual behavior for young men to try to force sexual acts on others.
If that’s the case, I’m not even going to try to convince you otherwise. Let’s just say I’m glad that many men on CAF do NOT accept that it is normal for young men to engage in sexually predatory behavior.
And BTW, to those stating that Josh wouldn’t have done this if he had access to porn or non-family members: There are posts in the past World News topic on the Duggars, that quote a woman, “Alice”, who broke this story on the Net way back in 2006, stating she knew the Duggars, and that Josh had confessed in church to using porn as well. And the police report itself makes it clear that one of the victims was OUTSIDE the family.
Also, aren’t these arguments disturbingly close to those blaming priestly celibacy for the sex abuse scandals?
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ucfengr
Guest
I don’t think those are the only two options. The Duggers, apparently dealt with it as a family and it looks like things turned out okay for everybody. Certainly better than putting the family through the trauma of seeing a beloved brother and son go to prison.
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Convert_in_99
Guest
I would hope to have the courage like the Duggars and report it to the authorities, but it would take a lot of thought. That is a lifelong permanent record I’d not want my child put through if I wasn’t sure if it was malice or curiosity. That is not an easy thing to do. Immediate and long-term separation of the offender is absolutely necessary. Ongoing, not one time counseling for the offender and victims both psychological as well as spiritual.
As for Josh’s current situation, Anna did willingly sign up to be married to this man knowing his serious sins. Personally I wouldn’t have married him without proof of him coming clean from psychiatrists and social workers (and a background check) but irregardless it was her choice.
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ucfengr
Guest
I didn’t say it wasn’t a big deal, but I am questioning the wisdom of bringing the legal system into it as the first course of action.
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LightBound
Guest
I appreciate your thoughtful response. It’s a situation no one wants to be in as a parent. While what he did is still a criminal offense, there is a strong likelihood that he would have been given probation and mental health therapy rather than an actual prison sentence or prolonged detainment in a juvenile facility.I would hope to have the courage like the Duggars and report it to the authorities, but it would take a lot of thought. That is a lifelong permanent record I’d not want my child put through if I wasn’t sure if it was malice or curiosity. That is not an easy thing to do. Immediate and long-term separation of the offender is absolutely necessary. Ongoing, not one time counseling for the offender and victims both psychological as well as spiritual.
As for Josh’s current situation, Anna did willingly sign up to be married to this man knowing his serious sins. Personally I wouldn’t have married him without proof of him coming clean from psychiatrists and social workers (and a background check) but irregardless it was her choice.
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Lou2U
Guest
I’m sure it wasn’t “certainly better” for the victims who had to live with Josh when they felt they couldn’t trust him. It wouldn’t have been “certainly better” for the victims when what they were put through was swept under the rug and dismissed as “it wasn’t rape”.
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LightBound
Guest
Cleaned it out. Thank you.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
This type of fearmongering shows a lack of knowledge about legal matters.
As a principle it is against forum rules to offer legal advice on the forums but I would certainly think arguing for criminal activity is under the same ban. Not reporting it is a crime. You (the parent) will go to jail for it. A 14 year old boy will most likely not go to prison…
Authorities need to be involved for the safety of the children and the state has an active obligation to provide that. A parent who does not report risks jail. And will lose their children. I say this so that someday when you have kids you are aware of the obligation to report such things and the consequences if you do not.Would you let josh babysit your kids?
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I agree. In my state this type of over the clothing molestation is considered a Class E Felony. Normally Class E felonies do not require prison sentences, but probation and mandatory counseling.
I do wonder if Josh was suffering from some type of mental illness to do this.
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Kelly
Guest
The problem is They did not go to the authorities when this initially happened. They let it occur over and over and over again. They let the statute of limitations run out before contacting authorities. I’m amazed by this thread and some of the responses that I have read that minimize Josh’s behavior. “Copping a feel” of your younger sisters is never acceptable, and certainly not when a 5 year old is involved.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Well, the problem is that because the parents did not remove Josh from the home right away, more girls were victimized. Including a girl who was NOT a family member, who we haven’t heard from at all.
And I certainly did not think that poor Jill Duggar turned out okay, just based on the glimpse we had of her breaking down in an interview expressly meant for damage control, she could not quite stick to the script, which makes me think she’s doing worse in private. (Jessa seems to be doing okay, at least for now. But I wonder if this will change once she becomes a mother herself, the way Jill is.)
Your focus on Josh’s well-being above that of his sisters, certainly seems to have the same mindset as the Duggars themselves.
You’re also ignoring what many posters have stated, that Josh would likely have NOT gone to prison. He certainly wouldn’t have been tossed in with the adult rapists.
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ucfengr
Guest
I typically don’t let strangers babysit my kids, I don’t know any of the Duggers, so no. When we talk about this it’s all abstract. It’s very easy to make decisions for other people’s family and tell other people what they should have done in a certain situation. For Ma and Pa Dugger, this wasn’t some abstract idea, they were dealing with the very real possibility of putting their son in the juvenile prison system. When excrement gets real, you really don’t know what you’ll do.This type of fearmongering shows a lack of knowledge about legal matters.
As a principle it is against forum rules to offer legal advice on the forums but I would certainly think arguing for criminal activity is under the same ban. Not reporting it is a crime. You (the parent) will go to jail for it. A 14 year old boy will most likely not go to prison…
Would you let josh babysit your kids?
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
You need to quit viewing this from Jim Bob and Michelle’s perspective for a few minutes and view it from the perspective of the other girl’s parents. If she was your daughter, would you want this handled properly or would you prefer the gross mishandling that it received?
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ucfengr
Guest
I’m not ignoring it, but I am discounting it. The Duggers didn’t know whether there son had a 10% chance of entering the juvenile prison system, 25%, or 49%. They would have been rolling the dice with his and the rest their family’s future. Prison rape and gang violence doesn’t just go on in adult prisons. It’s very easy to talk about what should have happened in the abstract, but when it’s your own kids involved, things get hard.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
People really need to quit mis-characterizing what Josh did as “over the clothing.” There were multiple instances of skin-on-skin contact. I’m not saying he would have received prison for it at age 14, but any minimizing of what he did is inappropriate. He was a serial molester with multiple victims. His case wasn’t handled properly. Whether he repented and asked for forgiveness is irrelevant. I have a family friend who was a serial molester almost his entire life. Every time he got caught he repented and asked forgiveness (except for the last time when he finally went to prison, but blaming his victims was a key part of his defense).
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
My question for you is, what about the future of the VICTIMS? Now, you are stating that the Duggars didn’t know what would happen if they reported Josh to secular authorities. But they also didn’t know what kind of future the victims would have. They didn’t know if they’d turn out okay or not. They didn’t know if Josh’s actions would escalate further. So you can’t say “the girls turned out okay” as a way to justify what they did back then, when they didn’t know if they would.
Am I wrong in getting the impression from you, that you think Josh deserved more protection from his parents than the actual victims? That it was okay for the parents to roll the dice with the victims, but not Josh? Why is Josh more important than his sisters? Also, one victim was not a family member. When Josh attacked her, he’d already made this more than just a family issue.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I did not “minimize” I wasn’t aware there was skin to skin contact. My understanding according to what I read was that it was over the clothing.
I would not ever “minimize” child abuse purposefully.
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