Eight transgender questions maybe more

[Thorolfr]

And we don’t even know what transgenderism is or what causes gender dysphoria

We don’t know what causes most mental conditions. Although there are various theories, we don’t know what causes depression or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or OCD or ADHD, etc. But that doesn’t stop doctors from trying to treat these conditions with therapy and/or medication.

 

[LilyM]

0Scarlett_nidiyilii:

And we don’t even know what transgenderism is or what causes gender dysphoria

We don’t know what causes most mental conditions. Although there are various theories, we don’t know what causes depression or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or OCD or ADHD, etc. But that doesn’t stop doctors from trying to treat these conditions with therapy and/or medication.

Trying and, in plenty of cases, succeeding.

That is what medicine demands - if you don’t know the cause of an illness, but can see and treat the symptoms, then it is cruel and maybe unethical not to do so.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

We don’t know what causes most mental conditions. Although there are various theories, we don’t know what causes depression or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or OCD or ADHD, etc. But that doesn’t stop doctors from trying to treat these conditions with therapy and/or medication.

Exactly!

So why can’t we research this and figure out treatments for it?

And unlike with the other conditions you mentioned, why are laws being written to enshrine this particular condition? Why are clinics allowed to destroy young bodies?
The bodies of people who are considered too incompetent under the law to buy alcohol or even to rent a steam cleaner???
A doctor can and usually will refuse to tubal ligation a woman unless she’s reached a certain age and had a certain number of children.

What makes the slippery and nebulous condition called “transgenderism” so special?

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

if you don’t know the cause of an illness, but can see and treat the symptoms, then it is cruel and maybe unethical not to do so.

Did you know that in many, if not all, States, it’s a legal trespass to suggest that gender dysphoria is not because of being “born in the wrong body”?

Therapists and social workers have to walk on eggshells and be very careful of every word they say to a teenage client who claims “transgender”.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

We don’t know what causes most mental conditions. Although there are various theories, we don’t know what causes depression or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or OCD or ADHD, etc. But that doesn’t stop doctors from trying to treat these conditions with therapy and/or medication.

Exactly!

So why can’t we research this and figure out treatments for it?

But I’m sure that doctors who treat transgender people consider what they’re doing (hormones, surgery) to be a form of treament for their patients’ gender dysphoria. And most of them apparently consider this to be the best treatment available. If they had a kind of talk therapy or a pill that patients could take that was more successfully in treating gender dysphoria than what they’re doing now, doctors would be giving it to them.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Are they really?

When you can’t even publish your findings if they oppose the activist narrative without being hounded?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-your-daughter-defies-biology-11546804848

There is no level playing field for researching this.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

It has been pointed out that sometimes the sex is not determinate. My sister had both outie and innie at birth. In the 50s, born in a doctors office, the doctor asked her parents to “pick one”. They guessed wrong.

It is not a case of “bearing your cross”, Her different parts went to war with each other.and she almost died. She had to “transition”. No choice.

Physiological issues are dealt with by the medical professionals. The Church doesn’t dictate that these people commit suicide, because, in many cases, that’s what it would be.

By the way, her original birth certificate showed female, but was “corrected” after the parents picked. Later in life she was corrected and birth certificate similarly corrected.

One does not change genders, but one can correct an incorrect “judgement”.

A scenario such as your dear sister’s is precisely why, unless there are some overpowering reasons to do so (e.g., cannot urinate), it is best just to leave things alone, and when the child reaches adulthood, if they wish to, then have an operation as desired.

I am happy to see that our society, at least in its more civilized quarters, is coming to understand intersex, and to see it as the birth defect it is, nothing to be lampooned or made fun of, but rather, respected and viewed compassionately. I have never known anyone who was openly intersex (there may have been cases where the person didn’t wish to discuss it), but I can tell you it would have been occasion for hoots, snickers, and cruel remarks from those of a callow age or mindset. That shouldn’t be. That, too, needs to fall under the rubric of respect for the dignity of the human person — however they happened to have been born.

 

[Rau]

Can’t read the WSJ article without subscription.

 

[Rau]

Did you know that in many, if not all, States, it’s a legal trespass to suggest that gender dysphoria is not because of being “born in the wrong body”?

Which States? Can you link to the relevant legislation? I think it’s important to get a good handle on what if any position the law has taken.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Okay, try this one:

How 'peer contagion' plays into the rise of teens transitioning

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

In the clinical setting.
Kiddo comes in with gender dysphoria (a symptom) and they’ve decided that they are transgender (diagnosis)
The clinical psychologist or LCSW cannot challenge this self-determined diagnosis directly. And I mean, as in they can lose their license if they do.
Even if it’s pretty clear this feeling did not exist from birth and was obviously triggered elsewhere.
They can try to elicit a history and attempt to try to fix some of the other problems these kids have, such as anxiety.
But any question or suggestion that can even be slightly interpreted as questioning or disagreement with the diagnosis of a minor child will be seen as “conversion therapy” and can result in losing their license.
My source? I work in health care and talk to a lot of psychologists and LCSWs.

I’ll see if I can find references to the Practice Acts of individual states.

 

[Rau]

But any question or suggestion that can even be slightly interpreted as questioning or disagreement with the diagnosis of a minor child will be seen as “conversion therapy” and can result in losing their license.

In the early stages of medical consultation, it would seem bizarre to not invest some effort in establishing all relevant circumstances. It is unusual medical practice to simply latch onto one diagnosis, particularly when the condition is complex and emerging and novel, and when the treatments, given that diagnosis, are potentially extreme.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

It is unusual medical practice to simply latch onto one diagnosis, particularly when the condition is complex and emerging and novel, and when the treatments, given that diagnosis, are potentially extreme.

Exactly.
And I’ve talked to parents who related that they took their kids to “gender clinics” and the intake person (med tech or receptionist) would make a remark like “okay, Dr So-and-So will check you out and we’ll get you on those hormones right away”.

This is happening all over and parents don’t realize.

There’s this persistent belief that there’s some long and careful process before a diagnosis is made, but that isn’t true.

And so many parents are being blindsided by this.

 

[FrostArcana]

This article is onteresting, but I think they are making this all sound like some sinister conspiracy to “take our girls” it reads like a scientific terf rhetoric face mask to hide the fact that people just dont like trans individuals. Maybe there should be more process to weed out those who will regret it, but I find it hard to see what is wrong with people exploring their gender identity and finding out who they really are. I did it for a while myself, thought I was an egg at one point but it turns out it was nothing more than a cisgirl who would rather present more masculine, no dysphoria nada, I guess tomboys to this author are mythical beings

Also you don’t need to have some mental anguish to become trans! My friend is living her best life and all she had to go on for the beginning of her transition was realizing that not all boys wanted to be girls growing up. Sometimes it’s as simple as that, and many people, from my experience the majority, are made better off by the process. It’s not something I would present always as needing to be “fixed up” like this article does, for many people it’s fine.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Maybe there should be more process to weed out those who will regret it, but I find it hard to see what is wrong with people exploring their gender identity and finding out who they really are.

Believe what you like. I don’t know who this message will reach and who it won’t. But people need to know these things. And I’ll keep spreading the word.

But I could have written this article myself, based on my own real life observations and family experience.

You’re very young. You prolly don’t know, but here has been a long, sad history in medicine of experimentation, especially on the most vulnerable and voiceless. Right now, that would be teen girls.
And it usually occurs at the intersection of reproductive medicine and psychiatry.

If it were merely a question of playing with fashion and names, it wouldn’t matter. But kids are being sterilized and mutilated.

You sound like a very caring person and you want to be there for your friend. But I would bet there’s way more going on behind the scenes than you can know.

 

[Rau]

There’s this persistent belief that there’s some long and careful process before a diagnosis is made, but that isn’t true.

I suspect there may be pathways that are all too ready to latch onto one course of treatment, but surely there are others, other professionals, who would take a far more cautious approach.

I find it Unfathomable that parents would go along with an overly rapid, extreme, diagnosis and treatment plan.

Are your observations based on experience in the US or elsewhere?

 

[Rau]

…exploring their gender identity and finding out who they really are.

I’m not sure I know what means. It seems to be about discovering how one feels about oneself. It’s also not clear why it ought to have medical implications, absent distress or a risk of harm.

 

[Montrose]

The Church says this? I’ve never heard that before. I find “sources, please” people to be one step up from calling someone a liar — it’s really off-putting — but that said, do you have a source for this? Not calling you a liar, just wondering where this comes from.

The comment I gave you is from a paper I forgot to bookmark but the one below which is a milder comment is from the Church paper I posted in post #4:

“in cases where a person’s sex is not clearly defined, it is medical professionals who can make a therapeutic intervention. In such situations, parents cannot make an arbitrary choice on the issue, let alone society. Instead, medical science should act with purely therapeutic ends, and intervene in the least invasive fashion, on the basis of objective parameters and with a view to establishing the person’s constitutive identity.”

 

[LilyM]

0Scarlett_nidiyilii:

There’s this persistent belief that there’s some long and careful process before a diagnosis is made, but that isn’t true.

I suspect there may be pathways that are all too ready to latch onto one course of treatment, but surely there are others, other professionals, who would take a far more cautious approach.

I find it Unfathomable that parents would go along with an overly rapid, extreme, diagnosis and treatment plan.

Are your observations based on experience in the US or elsewhere?

Sometimes the issue can be taken out of the hands of parents. Advocates on behalf of the child can independently seek, and obtain, court approval for the treatment. Rather like cases where child needs a blood transfusion and parents won’t agree to one for religious reasons.

 

[Rau]

Rather like cases where child needs a blood transfusion and parents won’t agree to one for religious reasons.

But it would not be like that at all. One case is hasty medicine in what is not even immediately life-threatening circumstances, the other opposing medicine for non-medical reasons when a life is immediately at risk.

Advocates on behalf of the child can independently seek, and obtain, court approval for the treatment.

And I suspect that happens only infrequently and only after extensive process to determine the best course of action.