Enoch and Elijah in heaven?

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What do we mean by “the sleep of Mary” or “the dormition of Mary”? Dormition verses Assumption?​

The title and the idea of “the sleep of Mary” is more formally known as “the Dormition of Mary.” (Dormition comes from the Latin dormire , meaning “to sleep.”) The title “Dormition” can be misleading because it seems to focus more on the death and burial of Mary. For instance, St. Paul in his First Letter to the Thessalonians wrote of those “who sleep in death” and have “fallen asleep” before the second coming and await the resurrection of the dead (4:13ff). However, the belief surrounding the dormition is intrinsically linked with the assumption of our Blessed Mother, body and soul, into Heaven. With that preliminary answer, we need to review the dogma of the Assumption and how it is related to “dormition” or “sleep.” link
 
We do not know if they died or were taken alive. Scripture is silent, speculation is speculation.
Psalms62 said:
Moses and Elijah are assumed to be the two witnesses that will return before the tribulation. Also, it is said that Mary will return at that time.
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Speculation. The whole “tribulation” is almost always part of non-Catholic “Rapture” theory.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Speculation. The whole “tribulation” is almost always part of non-Catholic “Rapture” theory.
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That Mary would return? Or that Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses? Again, the stating " taken into heaven alive" and the “possible” reasons are in the title. The tribulation - is fact and apart of revelations.
 
TheLittleLady said:
For Elijah, begin with the Catholic encyclopedia article:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05381b.htm
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Not a huge fan of the tribulation period because there are so many writers on the subject with different speculations. Some that go too far out in left field.

You know, just as individuals, when it comes to our own faith, and especially when centering on our own lives, that we don’t get caught up into that fear. Everyday is a battle of ones own religious beliefs. We pray for those in our family, friends and when it comes to spiritual guidance and understanding we anticipate answers whether it is for a loved one or for our everyday needs.

In the end, and as the apostle Paul tell us "He wrote the church in Corinth saying, “Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever”

So, whether it is called tribulations from the stand point of all or from a individual battle we know that God leads us through the pains and joy. We become closer to God through both. Amazing how we hold tight to Him and how He responds back.

I think of the last tribulation is for dominion and if there is evidence of who holds greater power…we know God has it by viewing not only by the ressurrection of His own Son - Jesus but also, of His great love for us. Exodus, is a good place to start viewing:

Exodus 18:
Jethro was delighted to hear about all the good things the Lord had done for Israel in rescuing them from the hand of the Egyptians. 10 He said, “Praise be to the Lord, who rescued you from the hand of the Egyptians and of Pharaoh, and who rescued the people from the hand of the Egyptians. 11 Now I know that the Lord is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly"
 
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It’s probably Eden that Adam and Eve were banished from. Perhaps another dimension.
 
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The Four Rivers that Come from Eden

Pishon, Gichon, Chidekel and Perat, which all seemingly flow from the same source, the Garden of Eden.

The Chidekel is widely accepted as being the Tigris River, which flows from southeastern Turkey through Iraq, and eventually spills into the Persian Gulf. Daniel describes standing on the banks of the Chidekel River while receiving one of his visions during the time when he was in exile in Babylonia.Clearly, the Chidekel River is in the region of ancient Babylonia, which is present-day Iraq.
 
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Primarily because the resurrection has not yet occurred. One ascended, one was assumed.

Now, as to Elijah and Enoch…

…what about our Lord’s parable of Lazarus and the rich man? They were not in heaven, as God was not present - no Beatific Vision. Yet, it was a place of consolation. Saint Peter wrote of Christ descending to the dead so as to preach the Gospel to the “spirits in prison.” They were not in hell, but also not in heaven. “The abode of the dead” or Sheol is the term used.
 
Adam and Eve, or our original parents, were in the very real world before the fall. The world fell, no dimension shift, very real. We await the time when Christ returns and our world will be restored to the world that our original parents rejected.
 
We state it in the Creed, Christ descended to the dead. He led forth all of the righteous and brought them to Heaven where they became the first Saints in heaven.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Adam and Eve, or our original parents, were in the very real world before the fall.
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Everything they experienced was real. They were also cast out of the Garden which is no longer accessible.
TheLittleLady said:
The world fell, no dimension shift, very real.
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That depends what you believe. Technically, mankind is much younger than most everything here. Death predates our appearance.
TheLittleLady said:
We await the time when Christ returns and our world will be restored to the world that our original parents rejected.
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Well, technically, this all going to pass away.

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
 
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HomeschoolDad said:
Just out of curiosity, if the whole world was flooded in the time of Noah, wouldn’t that include the Garden of Eden?
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The Garden ceased to exist. It either disappeared, was corrupted, or isn’t here.

Some saints say that Elijah and Enoch aren’t dead and instead are being kept in an Earthly Paradise. Sounds like a description of Eden or something similar.
 
Actually, doctrine, The Catechism article is too long to post, but, worth reading as are the footnoted documents:

*VI. THE HOPE OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH

1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:

The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.631
1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."632 It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."633

1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."63

1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, “so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,” sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.640

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm
 
Cruciferi said:
Just out of curiosity, if the whole world was flooded in the time of Noah, wouldn’t that include the Garden of Eden?
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OK, but those two ideas are contradictory. Eden either exists or it doesn’t. I suppose it is entirely possible that 40 days under water didn’t have any effect upon Eden. Evidently the vegetation we have on earth today survived.

This all supposes that the Flood is a literal event that took place exactly the way the Bible says it did. Some say that prior to the Flood, there was a water canopy over the earth that regulated the climate and mitigated the harmful effects of the sun’s radiation. When the Flood came, the water canopy burst.

Just out of curiosity, if all of the ice melted in both the Arctic and Antarctica, and if all the water molecules in the clouds fell to earth, and if all underground water (rivers, aquifers, etc.) came to the earth’s surface, would the entire surface of the earth then be covered with water? This is a scientific question, not a religious one.
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