European elections 2019: LIVE results

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Ridgerunner said:
Militarily, the EU is no match for Russia
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That would be due to the fact that the EU does not have its own armed forces but rather the member states alone have military personnel.

Some wish to change that in Europe, including Macron and recently Merkel, but it’s a divisive issue.
 
You acted as if nationalism and populism are bad things. I disagreed and said I was thankful they still exist in the U.S.

That doesn’t mean I’m “dumb” (trailer park all the way with that one). In any event, as I have said before, I don’t think either term means the same thing among Europeans who favor political union as it does in America.
Vouthon said:
That would be due to the fact that the EU does not have its own armed forces but rather the member states alone have military personnel.

Some wish to change that in Europe, including Macron and recently Merkel, but it’s a divisive issue.
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I’m guessing it will always be a divisive issue. It’s asking a lot of, say, Spaniards, to send their young people to die for, say, Latvia.
 
Ridgerunner said:
That doesn’t mean I’m “dumb
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Never called you dumb nor even intimated such. You are one of the most intelligent and eloquent people on this forum, even though I often bitterly disagree with you on certain matters.

I called the European policy of your adminstration a dumb policy because while Trump goes around insulting the EU and praising it’s critics, he solidifies public opinion in Europe (which is around 80% for remaining in EU as an average) to batton down the hatches in defence of the status quo, not that you or the people enacting it are in any sense “dumb”.

It’s a policy that reeks more of ideological fervour than pragmatic thinking.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
But for the U.S. the EU nations would be in the Warsaw Pact. Militarily, the EU is no match for Russia, despite being several times more populous and prosperous.
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I think this is self evidently true.

It is interesting and often forgotten that at the start of WW2 the two big socialist powerhouses of Germany and Russia were on the same side.

If not for Hitler’s decision to betray Russia it is probable that not even the United States (at the time) could have saved western Europe.

In securing 3/4’s of Germany the Christian democracies ‘turned’ Germany and the national socialists were banished. This is also an important facet of peace since the second world war.
 
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**“Now, I look back over the years: 70 years of peace in Europe, 50 years of partnership between the UK and the rest of the EU. The fascists have gone from Spain and Portugal, the colonels from Greece. Now we have 28 democracies working together on a basis of shared sovereignty, achieving far in excess of what any one of us could individually. Never forget that it was the memories of Europe’s war that laid the foundations of the European Union to people’s vote campaigners”.
Myths are abundant in Europe - 28 democracies of shared sovereignty and achievement? Hmmmm England, Italy, Germany, France, Sweden, bulging with problem migrants for openers.
 
There is real unity when Brussels unilaterally crams migrants down everyone’s throats. That was not democracy in action, not even a republic in action; that was an oligarchic autocracy in action. When the europhiles talk to us about this sort of thing, they’re not looking at the beam in their own eye. Yet people still wonder how Brexit got so much traction.

There is real unity when the EU countries have had their defense subsidized since WW2 and hence those funds are available to spend socially.

There is real unity when the second most prominent leader of his country proves to be deaf to the concerns of a certain significant segment of his country who feel the EU has not been good for them.

The is real unity when the European Central Bank policy follows the German austerity model to put the squeeze on countries like Greece, Portugal, Spain and now Italy. Driving them into the ground and making their assets and labor available on the cheap. In the normal course of events, those countries would survive by devaluing their own currency but due to their membership in the eurozone, that option is not open to them.
 
I take it you agree with Khan when he called Trump a “fascist” and insulted not only Trump but some of the European leaders and British politicians. That was just a gratuitous utterance on Khan’s part, no doubt intended to exacerbate riots by London leftists during the visit.

Trump responds to things like that, and while people who are in agreement with leaders like Khan might resent his doing so, lots of Americans are happy to see a leader like Trump who stands up for his country and himself.
 
While I think it would have been (and would be) far better for the population to treat President Trump with the same kind of indifference we treat everybody else’s leaders, I can’t help but consider that he could have scored a serious diplomatic victory by quiet dignity throughout.
 
“The Quiet Dignity of President Trump”. Yep, I can see the headlines …
 
Even if he managed to behave with a quiet dignity I doubt that would have made any difference.

Most Europeans have always looked at Americans as loud, ignorant, fat boors.
All 300 million of us. :roll_eyes:
 
Sarcelle said:
Most Europeans have always looked at Americans as loud, ignorant, fat boors.
All 300 million of us
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Hmm, perhaps that’s a little sweeping… Or, to put it another way, completely untrue. Just some of them. And some of us, too.
 
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It is a very good place to be - having the support of your fellow Americans who welcome a breath of fresh air in addressing important decisions affecting our country.

It is NOT President Trump who is behaving like a boor or a constant pain in the derriere.
 
According to many who are more accustomed to politicians who “just take it” from people who make outrageous accusations, that would undoubtedly seem so. Trump does have some popularity with people who are sick of seeing it happen with no response at all. That’s not a peculiarity with Trump. My parents loved Truman for the same thing.
 
grotto said:
He is the poster boy of what has gone so tremendously wrong
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What is that?

For my part, I would have preferred Khan to not respond. Trump did not need to insult him, why not just day he disagrees with Khan’s position? Whatever point Trump is trying to make is lost because he can’t rise above it.
 
Sarcelle said:
Most Europeans have always looked at Americans as loud, ignorant, fat boors.
All 300 million of us
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Certainly I don’t know anyone who thinks that, and if I ever heard it, I would correct the person saying it.
 
Hey - finally somebody over there understands! We call em like we see em.
 
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