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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Viva la France!
Not in the U.S.of A., pilgrim.
(I expect we will hear about Greek culture next)
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Not in the U.S.of A., pilgrim.
(I expect we will hear about Greek culture next)
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MJJean
Guest
Thanks for pointing that out, Thorolfr.
Zoltan, back to what basics? Here in the US men are just starting to be truly comfortable expressing affection to other men, but most of the rest of the world has never had a problem with men being affectionate with each other.
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Ositokc
Guest
Why is it not “manly?” Who should determine what is “manly?” or “Girly?”
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Different strokes for different folks!Thanks for pointing that out, Thorolfr.
Zoltan, back to what basics? Here in the US men are just starting to be truly comfortable expressing affection to other men, but most of the rest of the world has never had a problem with men being affectionate with each other.
Different cultures…
Frankly I don’t see American men (real men) showing undue affection towards one another.
Sure NFL players swat each other on the butt but you don’t see them sitting on the bench with their heads on another’s shoulder.
Not to get off the thread…but I am tired of this “feminization” of men and boys. It is time to regain MANHOOD.
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Responsible parents…first. Culture and society…second.
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Ositokc
Guest
Yeah, let’s get rid of all this sissy stuff! Give our boys guns early so they can HUNT, they can KILL their food, they can be a MANLY MAN! Never let them play with dolls or any of that girly stuff. Let’s teach them early to be macho and get that testosterone pumping early! Never let them cry too, that’s sissy girly stuff! It’s time to regain manhood!!
/sarcasm off
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Rau
Guest
Makes we wonder, what are the objective characteristics of real men?
- American
- heterosexual
- republican
Maybe add something about liking John Wayne movies?
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
How about the United States of America before the 20th century, the Enlightenment, the Renaissance or the Middle Ages?
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Thorolfr
Guest
This prudish mentality probably comes from America’s Puritan roots. Most of my ancestors were Protestant Puritans who came to America in the 1600s and I’m sure that they would approve.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Actually that attitude is less than a century old in America.This prudish mentality probably comes from America’s Puritan roots. Most of my ancestors were Protestant Puritans who came to America in the 1600s and I’m sure that they would approve.
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
the Enlightenment, the Renaissance and the Middle Ages preceded the United States…so what went on here at home before the 20th century?
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Men being physically (nonsexually) and emotionally intimate was perceived as perfectly normal.
Historically love for one’s friends was placed above love for one’s spouse.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
The interesting thing is that historically it was believed that same sex sexual behavior wasn’t some sin that could only happen to a few people, it was viewed as a sin that could befall anyone as heterosexuality hadn’t been invented yet.
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clem456
Guest
Can you flesh that out with a little more specificity?
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Heterosexuality was never “invented,” it was accepted and lived as a biological reality, in the same sense that gravity or light were never “invented.”
Sure, a word was concocted and utilized to speak about each of them, but, essentially, what they are is not dependent upon human invention
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estesbob
Guest
I believe it was invented about nine months before Adam and Eve had Cain.
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clem456
Guest
When you say “it was”, what exactly point in time are you referring to?
Before God gave the first two humans souls and bodies, God existed.
How does God reveal his existence? God existed (exists) as a community of persons. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Father loving Son loving Father in the Holy Spirit. Three persons indivisible yet distinct. God is a community of love even before humans came into being.
Love is fruitful. The loving community that God is can never be sterile. From this loving fruitfulness God pours forth all of creation. God’s love cannot turn inward on itself by nature.
Pouring forth humanity, God made us unique, in his image. Our very existence is an image of the life of the Trinity. In that image, our bodies are designed to participate in this fruitfulness. ( is that self evident in the construction of the human body?).
So then, for human beings to come into existence, to be, in the image of God, we participate and cooperate with our sexuality.
So you might see how your suggestion that homosexuality has always existed as a biological reality cannot be true. If it were true, how then do you explain human existence, which requires the procreative union of a man and a woman?
If you say that homosexuality has been practiced for eons, you have a good point. We can probably safely assume that it has been practiced since time beyond memory, but it has not always been an accepted part of biological reality. In fact, homosexuality could be said to -not- be a biological reality. If we observe how we are to be, it is an invented use of the faculty.
“A reality” in the area of sexuality presupposes a human body, correct? Connect the dots.
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WilT
Guest
Wishful thinking Joie de Vivre.
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estesbob
Guest
You miss read his post. He said heterosexuality was never invented and has always existed as a biological reality
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clem456
Guest
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