Evil Harry Potter

[CoffeeFanatic]

Dochawk said: “I refer to “JK Rowling Syndrome” as the phenomenon where an author has become popular enough to simply thumb his nose at any attempt at editing. The Potter books reached 700 pages with no more story than the 300 page volumes . . .”

This is very true. She did actually refuse to change the epilogue, against her publisher’s wishes. That epilogue was truly awful. When it was leaked early, I was convinced it was a poorly written fan-fiction. Alas.

 

[phil19034]

B) The charge that it promotes the idea of normal kids using magic is nonsense. A key plot point is that normal kids CAN’T do magic. It’s a natural innate power that wizards are born with. There’s no invocations of spirits or obtaining unnatural powers.

+++ Disclaimer: I have read all 7 of the Harry Potter books and enjoyed all 10 films from the franchise.

While I would not have made a big deal out of this if I was the priest, I can understand why the books shouldn’t been in a Catholic school library or used in a Catholic School.

The issue with them is that the books imply that witchcraft/magic is morally neutral and that it can be used by good people.

That is contrary to the Catholic Faith. The Catholic Faith teaches use of all magic (visiting a fortune teller, etc) is evil.

So while the books CAN be explained in a Christian context, they are not as overtly Catholic as The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings and overtly Christian as Narnia.

Again, the key quote is this one from the article:

“These books present magic as both good and evil, which is not true, but in fact a clever deception,” Rev Dan Reehil wrote.

My Jewish mother-in-law and I were talking a few years ago about how we have noticed that ever since the Harry Potter series started (and the first movies released), Hollywood has had an obsession with the occult. The dark Sabrina series on Netflix, The Order on Netflix, the devil show on Fox which was continued for another season on Netflix, Twilight Series, etc. Plus many cartoons series (or episodes) on Disney Jr, Nick Jr, etc revolving around good witches, good monsters, etc.

The plot point they all share in common, they all send the message that magic (aka the occult) can be used for good or evil and that magic is morally neutral. Again, this is goes against Christianity.

So I don’t take issue with what this priest did, but I do take issue with his messaging. Because, we really should not be focused on ONE movie or book series. What we should be focused on is the overall trend of making the occult morally neutral.

JK Rowling may have intended Christian themes in her books, and may have not intended to present the occult in a positive light, but in a way - she did.

At least in some stories (like The Order on Netflix) it’s presented that all magic has a cost. The Harry Potter series doesn’t present it like that at all.

So again - I can understand why priests and exorcists are concerned with books like the Harry Potter series.

I’m open for debate if anyone disagrees.

God bless

 

[goout]

Let’s watch while a matter of local prudential judgment turns into a pointless multipage disagreement.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Let’s watch while a matter of local prudential judgment turns into a pointless multipage disagreement.

Isn’t that the very essence of Catholic arguing forum?

 

[goout]

goout:

Let’s watch while a matter of local prudential judgment turns into a pointless multipage disagreement.

Isn’t that the very essence of Catholic arguing forum?

I guess.
Not to further the silliness, but what’s the purpose of this thread?

 

[twf]

At least in some stories (like The Order on Netflix) it’s presented that all magic has a cost. The Harry Potter doesn’t present it like that at all.

This still misses a fundamental aspect of the Harry Potter world…those who use magic, are NOT normal human beings…they are a fictional race of wizards born with innate powers, not humans who perform rituals or invoke spirits to obtain occult powers.

As far as magic being a staple in entertainment…I think it always has been. Classic Fairy Tales…Disney cartoons throughout the 20th century…

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Loud-living-dogma:

goout:

Let’s watch while a matter of local prudential judgment turns into a pointless multipage disagreement.

Isn’t that the very essence of Catholic arguing forum?

I guess.
Not be further the silliness, but what’s the point of this thread?

To ridicule the priest who banned HP in his school library?

 

[woolycaterpillar]

I have had lots of bad things happen. I never read Harry Potter.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

At least in some stories (like The Order on Netflix) it’s presented that all magic has a cost. The Harry Potter doesn’t present it like that at all.

This still misses a fundamental aspect of the Harry Potter world…those who use magic, are NOT normal human beings…they are a fictional race of wizards born with innate powers, not humans who perform rituals or invoke spirits to obtain occult powers.

As far as magic being a staple in entertainment…I think it always has been. Classic Fairy Tales…Disney cartoons throughout the 20th century…

Yes. This is very evident to an adult. But not to a child, who the books were geared to. In the Classic Fairy Tales from Disney where do good humans (except Merlin) use magic? The Fairy Godmother was a fairy - not human. Even in the Wizard of Oz, the Good Witch was from another land, not human.

My point is simply this: traditionally (though there have been exceptions) good humans typically did not use witchcraft.

Before Harry Potter, the male version of a witch was a warlock. Harry Potter linked wizards (who were often seen as good or morally neutral) with witches (who have been traditionally evil).

From my point of view, there is enough of Hollywood promoting the occult… I can totally understand why a Catholic School would want to keep Harry Potter out of the schools. Also, it’s not like the JK Rowling is on the same level as GK Chesterton and CS Lewis - she’s not.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Allow me to ask this for the sake of discussion: Why is the use of magic and occult practices sinful?

 

[GKMotley]

Now, if you think the latin automatically comes with supernatural power . . .

My child, wife, and I are all SF/fantasy collectors and regular attenders of SF cons, back in the day. My child’s degree was in Latin and classics and for 5 years she taught the subject.

At one con, one of the SF/fantasy writers we met some years before was in the process of writing his latest book, which would include a spell that he wrote, as useless as you can imagine such a thing to be. He wished for it to be translated into Latin, so it would look cool. My child agreed to do so and did and sent it to the writer, a week or so later. He thanked her. But when the book came out, the “spell” was in English, just as it had started. Next we met, he explained that the publisher worried that parents would take it for serious Mojo if it were printed in Latin.

Behold the power of the Classics.

 

[GKMotley]

My child (Phi Beta Kappa, summa cum laude, straight As since the 8th grade) could have helped her. But she left the world of Classics, to follow the flag, 19 years ago.

If she had truly realized the power in her hands, perhaps she would have stayed in Latin in some sense. But she vows she will never step into a classroom again.

We were going to write an alt-history 3 vol. opus, though, with me contributing some historical stuff, and her some classical stuff, set in Roman Britain.

After a while, we discovered that someone had basically written it already.

 

[goout]

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm

 

[LilyM]

You can’t justify saying anything crazy with the beatitudes.
[/quote

You missed the point.
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman:

A no from God about practicing the occult, not playing around with made up “spells” to pretend one is capable of casting magic. Rowling wasn’t contacted by demons when she made HP. She literally just made the spells up.

and

Catholics dont simulate sins and role play at breaking the law of God.

This isn’t a debate or discussion about toy guns. I will say engaging in duels, either pretend or real , with the occult as a tool, has great potential to hurt .

So a good Catholic couldn’t play-act the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz? Or the murderous Claudius in Hamlet? Or the criminal Don Corleone in The Godfather?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

“All practices of magic or sorcery , by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others…”

There is no taming of occult powers in the books, not even attempts. The gift of wizardry is a gift obtained at birth. Unless you’re telling me that little Harry consorted with demons, or little Ron attempted to channel Satan, the wizardry in the books is not the wizardry banned by the Church. They never advocate for naturalistic rituals or any other occult practices, either. It’s clear that the magic is a property (some may say God-given gift) that is inherent in the self, like sharp vision or faster reaction times or more natural mental acuity. Drawing the comparison between teaching gifted kids how to use their powers for good AS A PLOT DEVICE and actual ungodly witchcraft makes us look like crazy cultists.

 

[phil19034]

There is no taming of occult powers in the books, not even attempts.

This is not true. Again, I enjoyed the Harry Potter books and movies, however, what you say here isn’t objectively true.

They use and work on making potions - which would be “taming of the occult.” Also, if you look closely, the spells don’t automatically work when they simply say the enchantment. They have to learn how to properly “flick their wands,” they need to learn how to internalize, feel the spell, etc. In book 3, it takes Harry almost the whole school year to master the Patronus Charm, and then it takes in book 5 his “Order of the Phoenix” most of the school year to master their Patronus Charms when he’s teaching them in secret (notice, in the book, traditionally not even the 6th years know how to cast that charm yet).

Point is, in the books and movies, they have to practice, practice, practice… which one would argue is “taming occult powers.” The books also indicate that’s why there is a wizarding school to begin with… because without training, the wizard children would be accidently casting spells left and right (just like how Harry had his cousin fall through the glass in book 1 and accidently blew up his aunt in book 3.

Again, I’m a fan of the Harry Potter books. However, I really fail to understand why Catholics can’t accept that it makes sense to keep these books out of a Catholic School. If mom & dad think it’s fine, let your kids read them. But if another set of parents don’t like them, why have them in the Catholic School? The kids are NOT being robbed of their childhood and education by not allowing Harry Potter in Catholic school.

God Bless

 

[Dolphin]

Those who say Harry Potter is dangerous or satanic or anti-Catholic are only people who haven’t read the books

Read the books before you complain…

 

[Wozza]

snarflemike:

My kids read the books and ten years later they had to move out of the house and get a job.

I could use more information on that . . . which books? Do you have amazon links?’’’

And if you know of any that will stop them moving back in after they have left…

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

They use and work on making potions - which would be “taming of the occult.”

The potions are nothing more than concoctions of chemicals which together have certain effects. The same could be said of literally any mixture today, including medicines.

Also, if you look closely, the spells don’t automatically work when they simply say the enchantment. They have to learn how to properly “flick their wands,” they need to learn how to internalize, feel the spell, etc.

Yeah, they’re learning to use abilities innate in themselves. Again, it’s like literally any ability a normal human has, but it happens to be called magic. The X-Men had the same issue in their movies, but I don’t see you angry about Professor X teaching Magneto how to control his magnetic powers. The occult is based on worship and channeling of non-Godly forces like demons. There’s none of that happening. These magical abilities are inherent to the wizard, not acquired through ritual.

why have them in the Catholic School?

Evangelization isn’t helped by crazy people doing crazy stuff and calling it Catholic. That’s why.

 

[phil19034]

Evangelization isn’t helped by crazy people doing crazy stuff and calling it Catholic. That’s why.

True. The fact that this made national news isn’t great. As I said in the first post, I have issues with the messaging. The priests could have found a better way to remove Harry Potter without having this turn in national news.

However, I totally understand the reason why a priest or exorcist would want Harry Potter out. Again, I don’t think there is much issue with Harry Potter itself, but with Hollywood’s obsession with the occult and demons, I think Harry Potter and cartoon shows where monsters & witches are presented as good is unfortunately a doorway that can lead some people down the wrong path.