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Durnford
Guest
The west has done its best to antagonise and destabilise Russia and is now reaping what has been sown I am afraid.
Ex-defence minister Liam Fox: We must arm the Ukrainians as the credibility of the entire Nato alliance is at stake
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pepipop
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boar2roar
Guest
Well why do you ignore it and deflect everything except your Russian bullseye target? You’d probably post some hysterical world war 3 thread if someone armed troops against the UK whenever they subjugate people like NI or the Falklands or whatever colony they still have .Typical. Deflect from the Putin government’s illegal, expansionist actions by dragging to the fore every dirty deed of the UK government, of course clouded in general statements. Good tactic. I ought to use that as well more often.
The people of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are not “his” people. They live behind the internationally recognised borders of an independent Ukranian state. While the ideology of ethnic nationalism might not recognize these borders, the international community and international law does. Russia has acceded to the same international rules, accords, treaties etc. as every other party.
And it has flagrantly broken them.
They are more his people then the colonial power that is the UK subjugated. Not that the west has trouble rewriting borders whenever they feel like it so why the reverence all of the sudden when the hypocrites in the west never cared for it.
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Path_Finder
Guest
Another terrorist attack in Ukraine, historically, the Russians, Bolsheviks, Kremlin committed genocide there. They really need our prayers.
uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/22/uk-ukraine-crisis-idUKKBN0LQ08C20150222
uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/22/uk-ukraine-crisis-idUKKBN0LQ08C20150222
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boar2roar
Guest
A legitimate referendum? So only western referendums are legitimate. Man all those protestants getting shipped to NI was so fair and righteous not the part of the UK. And who cares if the western thugs recognize and support their own chums whenever they take and control things that they want?
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boar2roar
Guest
Why don’t you care about the genocide committed by WESTERN Ukrainians in Lviv and that area. Do your prayers get blocked by the spirit of Poroshenko?
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Erin go braghAn off-topic excursion I didn’t want to embark on either…But of course according to Jharek the “ghosts of the Troubles” are still with us and are relevant to every discussion of Russia’s actions.
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pepipop
Guest
I think it’s usually me, that refers to the NI situation in relation to Ukraine, only because I see great similarities in the two conflicts.
When I first saw the Ukrainians protest and being shot and killed, in December 2013, that was my first thought (aside from sorrow for all those involved) that this is exactly like what occurred in NI. (I sincerely pray that it will be resolved peaceably,very soon).
When I first saw the Ukrainians protest and being shot and killed, in December 2013, that was my first thought (aside from sorrow for all those involved) that this is exactly like what occurred in NI. (I sincerely pray that it will be resolved peaceably,very soon).
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Path_Finder
Guest
Nobody’s heard of what you are talking about.
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Vouthon
Guest
Your fumigating and going on a verbal rampage.
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Vouthon
Guest
Which has nothing to do with Liam Fox’s ability to correctly asses the situation in Ukraine.
You are merely engaging in a meaningless exercise in explaining why you hate the UK and regard it as a third-rate power. So what???
Funnily enough, Russia is the country that seems to be pining after illusions of its lost empire and wishing to wash off its third-rate status in world affairs, not Britain.
The UK economy right now is reviving at a rate that makes the ruble’s baleful state almost laughable and this crisis is due to Putin’s foreign adventurism, so a little bit rich if you ask me.
You are merely engaging in a meaningless exercise in explaining why you hate the UK and regard it as a third-rate power. So what???
Funnily enough, Russia is the country that seems to be pining after illusions of its lost empire and wishing to wash off its third-rate status in world affairs, not Britain.
The UK economy right now is reviving at a rate that makes the ruble’s baleful state almost laughable and this crisis is due to Putin’s foreign adventurism, so a little bit rich if you ask me.
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Path_Finder
Guest
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Lviv_professors
Looks like apples and oranges, bad things happened in World War II, we all know that. Still, it doesn’t compare to the earlier actions before World War II.
Russia remains the sick man of Europe.
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jinglebelle
Guest
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jinglebelle
Guest
that was historically turkey.dr fox - oh dear,these brave creatures bleat but will never send their own children to die
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Path_Finder
Guest
There are even stirrings that Western Ukraine doesn’t send enough men to fight in the East, it’s good to be patriotic and all of that but still.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
It appears the Minsk agreement never really got off the ground. It also appears Russia is not going to be content with Donetsk and Luhansk. One questions whether it will take all of Ukraine, but it will certainly conquer a land route to Crimea and probably at least the next two provinces west. Otherwise, there would be no good reason for the arms buildup going on in the Russian-held territories of eastern Ukraine.
It seemed unlikely to me that Putin would additionally seize part or all of the Baltic states. I now believe it more likely than not. Even seizure of parts of them would probably be the end of NATO as an effective deterrent. Theoretically, it would threaten nuclear war, but I think Putin has Obama’s measure and knows Obama poses no real threat to Putin’s ambitions. I think Putin will take the gamble, more likely than not. But my guess is that his ambitions in Ukraine are paramount for now.
Russia is now the ISIS of Europe, and the Obama of the Middle East is the same Obama in Europe.
It seemed unlikely to me that Putin would additionally seize part or all of the Baltic states. I now believe it more likely than not. Even seizure of parts of them would probably be the end of NATO as an effective deterrent. Theoretically, it would threaten nuclear war, but I think Putin has Obama’s measure and knows Obama poses no real threat to Putin’s ambitions. I think Putin will take the gamble, more likely than not. But my guess is that his ambitions in Ukraine are paramount for now.
Russia is now the ISIS of Europe, and the Obama of the Middle East is the same Obama in Europe.
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pepipop
Guest
An interesting view on the situation in Ukraine and relations to Russia prior to the current situation by an EU Ukrainian expert. This is only an excerpt and unfortunately google translate is never very good from German to English!
wienerzeitung.at/nachrichten/europa/europastaaten/736123_Es-gibt-zahlreiche-offene-Fragen-zu-den-Ereignissen-auf-dem-Maidan.html
**
**“Wiener Zeitung”: Mrs. Kirsch, how could it happen that the dispute over an Association Agreement between Ukraine and the European Union resulted in an extremely dangerous East-West conflict that still calls dead in eastern Ukraine?
Ina Cherry: You have to go back to the beginning. In 2007, as Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko was, the EU and Ukraine signed a partnership agreement. Tymoshenko would then equate the application for EU membership. In Brussels it was not thrilled. They wanted no new accessions. Something wanted the EU to Ukraine but then offer - from the idea of the Association is incurred, as a kind of precursor to joining the EU without completed accession. It was a compromise between the concerns of European populations compared to other accessions and the will, the neighborhood countries wishing that offer a high degree of EU integration. With a converted Association Agreement, the Ukrainian economy would be integrated to 90 percent in the EU internal market.
Why is this European integration of Ukraine to Russia a problem? Russia sought after information by President Vladimir Putin even an economic area from Lisbon to Vladivostok and close cooperation with the EU.
Yes, in Putin’s early years, when German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder was, there was a certain euphoria: Russia and Europe should join forces against the challenges posed by the Asian Tigers, it said. This is in practice but failed quickly. You could not even agree on technical standards themselves. The EU wanted Russia to assume its standards, the Russians tried to negotiate. It is sanded. Putin said after this failure, I make my own project, we serve the Asian region. The Russia can only do if Ukraine participates. Without Ukraine Russia is not on the technical level, it needs to build a new, competitive economic region can.
**If it was not Yanukovych, who was it - sniper killings at Maidan? Russia, the Ukrainian opposition, the United States? On the internet for some time now rumors that the West would have had at the change of his hands in the game.
**
No, I think that’s impossible. This was not the case. However, there are people like the US billionaire George Soros, the revolutions finance. Soros has also supported the Maidan, has paid people there - they have earned in two weeks on the Maidan during more than four working weeks in western Ukraine. What a terrible means that the Maidan was bought as a whole, the outrage following the non-signing of the Association Agreement was really natural. But one must not fool because: There is ample evidence that people were paid both on the Maidan and on the opposite event, the “Antimaidan”. There were prices for each performance. I know people who cashed in the morning on the Antimaidan at the counter demo, then over to the Maidan, where they have conceded again. This is in Ukraine nothing unusual. The picturesque old women who have always demonstrated for Yulia Tymoshenko, they had also collected just before the demonstration at a meeting point, decked out and sent. In any case, it was what it looks like, a revolution like made out of a storybook. And there is a real revolution, as Maidan activist Mustafa Najem said, only with blood.
How to think in Brussels on the situation in Kiev?
In Brussels we talk internally very different than in the official statement. To the outside Kiev is not criticized, internally very good. For example, corruption is still worse than under Yanukovich. Under Yanukovych entrepreneurs have even paid - by the way in the course of his tenure, more and more, which was also a reason for the rising discontent. Now they pay, and the next morning is already someone else outside the door. Since you can not calculate an entrepreneur. Another problem is the volunteer battalions. Which are paid by the oligarchs Ihor Kolomojski example, the governor of Dnipropetrovsk. However, the main task of the battalions is not so much the fight. Rather, they protect Kolomojskis companies and lead violent takeovers by foreign companies. Simply charge this company and drive away the people there, according to the Mafia principle. This is now possible.*
wienerzeitung.at/nachrichten/europa/europastaaten/736123_Es-gibt-zahlreiche-offene-Fragen-zu-den-Ereignissen-auf-dem-Maidan.html
**
**“Wiener Zeitung”: Mrs. Kirsch, how could it happen that the dispute over an Association Agreement between Ukraine and the European Union resulted in an extremely dangerous East-West conflict that still calls dead in eastern Ukraine?
Ina Cherry: You have to go back to the beginning. In 2007, as Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko was, the EU and Ukraine signed a partnership agreement. Tymoshenko would then equate the application for EU membership. In Brussels it was not thrilled. They wanted no new accessions. Something wanted the EU to Ukraine but then offer - from the idea of the Association is incurred, as a kind of precursor to joining the EU without completed accession. It was a compromise between the concerns of European populations compared to other accessions and the will, the neighborhood countries wishing that offer a high degree of EU integration. With a converted Association Agreement, the Ukrainian economy would be integrated to 90 percent in the EU internal market.
Why is this European integration of Ukraine to Russia a problem? Russia sought after information by President Vladimir Putin even an economic area from Lisbon to Vladivostok and close cooperation with the EU.
Yes, in Putin’s early years, when German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder was, there was a certain euphoria: Russia and Europe should join forces against the challenges posed by the Asian Tigers, it said. This is in practice but failed quickly. You could not even agree on technical standards themselves. The EU wanted Russia to assume its standards, the Russians tried to negotiate. It is sanded. Putin said after this failure, I make my own project, we serve the Asian region. The Russia can only do if Ukraine participates. Without Ukraine Russia is not on the technical level, it needs to build a new, competitive economic region can.
**If it was not Yanukovych, who was it - sniper killings at Maidan? Russia, the Ukrainian opposition, the United States? On the internet for some time now rumors that the West would have had at the change of his hands in the game.
**
No, I think that’s impossible. This was not the case. However, there are people like the US billionaire George Soros, the revolutions finance. Soros has also supported the Maidan, has paid people there - they have earned in two weeks on the Maidan during more than four working weeks in western Ukraine. What a terrible means that the Maidan was bought as a whole, the outrage following the non-signing of the Association Agreement was really natural. But one must not fool because: There is ample evidence that people were paid both on the Maidan and on the opposite event, the “Antimaidan”. There were prices for each performance. I know people who cashed in the morning on the Antimaidan at the counter demo, then over to the Maidan, where they have conceded again. This is in Ukraine nothing unusual. The picturesque old women who have always demonstrated for Yulia Tymoshenko, they had also collected just before the demonstration at a meeting point, decked out and sent. In any case, it was what it looks like, a revolution like made out of a storybook. And there is a real revolution, as Maidan activist Mustafa Najem said, only with blood.
How to think in Brussels on the situation in Kiev?
In Brussels we talk internally very different than in the official statement. To the outside Kiev is not criticized, internally very good. For example, corruption is still worse than under Yanukovich. Under Yanukovych entrepreneurs have even paid - by the way in the course of his tenure, more and more, which was also a reason for the rising discontent. Now they pay, and the next morning is already someone else outside the door. Since you can not calculate an entrepreneur. Another problem is the volunteer battalions. Which are paid by the oligarchs Ihor Kolomojski example, the governor of Dnipropetrovsk. However, the main task of the battalions is not so much the fight. Rather, they protect Kolomojskis companies and lead violent takeovers by foreign companies. Simply charge this company and drive away the people there, according to the Mafia principle. This is now possible.*
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Why cite something nobody can read to see what’s really in the article? Many of the supposedly translated sentences aren’t even sentences.
This should be ignored.
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pepipop
Guest
Ignore it then, you’re not obligated to read it.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Everyone should ignore it. If somebody cites something as authoritative, he should do so in a way that others should be able to examine it. When someone writes something and cites a source in a foreign language only, few can do that.
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