Far right spreading false rumors blaming antifa for forest fires

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Ridgerunner said:
Why is it hard to believe that people who would burn down stores would also burn forests or scrubland?
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Looters aren’t protesters. Thievery gets some things – what does a forest fire gain anyone anything?

To suppose that leftists are starting forest fires borders on paranoia – what evidence is there that there was human ignition on any of the fires? The firemen says there is none.

What I find tragic is that many folks in harm’s way from the fires in OR have refused to evacuate because they believe the threat of fire is a subterfuge so their homes can be looted. That type of thinking is the obvious result of right -wing rumor mongering and outright hoaxes.
 
Horton said:
Well should we believe the law enforcement agencies who are making arrests?
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Do you believe the fact that the fire he set was extinguished?

“The fire was contained to the interstate and extinguished by the local fire department. Puyallup Police were forced to close the northbound ramp.” That’s not a forest fire that endangered a lot of people.

PolitiFact: “Is there some evidence that these left-wing activists are responsible for the wildfires ravaging the West Coast? No. Officials have dispelled the rumors, and while investigations are still ongoing, many of the fires appear to have been sparked accidentally.”

Snopes: "In early September 2020, rumors spread across social media that wildfires on the West Coast, particularly Oregon, had been set by “antifa” — a rumor that area police departments worked to debunk, noting that it was making their efforts amid life-or-death emergency conditions more difficult.

Catastrophic wildfires in Oregon, Washington, and California in early September 2020 have, as of this writing, killed seven people, forced thousands to evacuate, burned homes, and scorched millions of acres. Amid this chaos and destruction, emergency responders were forced to take time to counter misinformation galloping across social media platforms — rumors that falsely claimed political extremists were behind a coordinated arson campaign.

For example a headline from the website The Gateway Pundit read, “Antifa Radical Arrested for Arson in Washington State — Was Caught on Highway Live-Streaming on Facebook Before Arrest (Video).”

A 36-year-old Puyallup man was arrested on Sept. 9, 2020, on suspicion of setting a fire in the median on SR 167. But Washington State Patrol Trooper Ryan Burke told Snopes police don’t have evidence that the incident was linked to antifa."
 
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Nepperhan said:
what does a forest fire gain anyone anything?
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The same thing as burning a store; the joy of destruction. Although you have suggested another reason, which is remarked below.
Nepperhan said:
what evidence is there that there was human ignition on any of the fires?
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Others have answered this. Scroll up.
Nepperhan said:
What I find tragic is that many folks in harm’s way from the fires in OR have refused to evacuate because they believe the threat of fire is a subterfuge so their homes can be looted.
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I never considered that. But possibly they’re right. After all, that’s what the looter/arsonist/protesters have done in the cities.
Nepperhan said:
noting that it was making their efforts amid life-or-death emergency conditions more difficult.
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That tells us the reportage is fake. Whether arsonists set the fires or whether nature did does not change the nature of a fire.
 
Soubirous1 said:
Trump said it’s about forest management.
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It is about forest management. Global warming is not causing wildland fires, natural events such as lightning strikes (where it isn’t arson) are the main cause of wildland fires. The intensity of a wildland fire is caused by some other factors, some natural and uncontrollable by man, and two completely controllable by man.

The first are wind, heat, and lack of rain/moisture. I know you’ll want to call the last one global warming but it is a natural event occurring all over the world on a somewhat regular cycle, drought and flood.

The last two are bad forest management policies and bad development policies. The environmentalists have stopped forest managers from going in to do what is best for the health of the forests because they have some misguided notion that everything should be left to nature, not realizing that wildland fires are nature. Wildland fires have a place in the cycle of the health of a forest. The forest service knows what they need to do but they are not allowed to do so because liberal state leaders pass so many restrictions. There is proven science behind good forest management, science that has been there for a very long time.

There is the occasional wildland fire that gets out of control and does what it will because nature is just against it. However these fires in CA year after year are not that, these fires are very bad, almost non-existent state leadership in the area of forest management. I doubt Newsom could have planned to destroy CA forest lands better than he did so by pure negligence.
 
Arsonists setting fires in forests and other rural terrain is nothing new at all. They have been a problem in California for decades and likely elsewhere too. There are rural areas that have always put together their own citizen patrols to watch out for possible firebugs during the dry season. Topanga Canyon in LA County, for instance, is one such area with its own citizen patrol that has existed in some form at least since the 1970’s.

I’ve thought long before this year that a small, dedicated group of persons acting inimically to the state could easily set off dozens of fires under the right terrain and weather conditions. Maybe little to no proof of Antifa so far, I’ll grant the naysayers that much, but I sure don’t see this beyond them as this action would fit into their aims of sowing chaos and disorder. They set fires in the cities, why not the rural areas? Consider too their opposition coming to Portland from out of town to show themselves, might Antifa want to strike back at them? I would not put it past them to think that way.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
That tells us the reportage is fake. Whether arsonists set the fires or whether nature did does not change the nature of a fire.
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As stated, the efforts to save people are more difficult due to conservative rumors and hoaxes which make people reluctant to leave their homes.

As to your allegation on what arsonists/looters have done in other cities: I have personally seen the looters. Few residents have been looted or set on fire on purpose. The blanket revulsion which would result in anyone being caught setting a catastrophic forest fire should keep any protester from considering such an act.

The penultimate question is why rumor-monger when the facts are not known and spreading rumors endangers lives?
 
Nepperhan said:
Do you believe the fact that the fire he set was extinguished?
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How about this guy? Or should we ignore him as he doesn’t quite fit the far left liberal narrative for the fires?
A Southern Oregon man is accused of arson in connection with a fire that has caused major damage to several towns in Jackson County.

Michael Jarrod Bakkela, 41, has arrested on two counts of arson, 15 counts of criminal mischief and 14 counts of reckless endangerment.

The fire Bakkela set is considered to be one of two origins of the Almeda fire, said Oregon State Fire Marshal’s office spokesman Rich Tyler. The two fires quickly merged, Tyler said.
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www.oregonlive.com

Man arrested, charged with arson in connection with southern Oregon fire

Michael Bakkela, 41, was arrested Friday
www.oregonlive.com www.oregonlive.com
 
Horton said:
How about this guy? Or should we ignore him as he doesn’t quite fit the far left liberal narrative for the fires?
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What was his motive? I’m sure you looked into his heart of hearts and can report back.
 
Feanor2 said:
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JonNC:
Neither is NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, WAPO, or NYT.
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Is Breitbart? How about RedState?
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I’m not a big fan of Breitbart, but the two are no less reliable than than the ones I mentioned.
 
" The FBI’s Portland office said last week that “reports that extremists are setting wildfires in Oregon are untrue.” Neighboring Oregon sheriff’s offices have debunked reports that Antifa is intentionally setting fires.

“Antifa” was recently invoked by conservative officials, including President Donald Trump, as responsible for fires, looting and mischief after months of protests against racism and police brutality. Antifa, short for anti-fascists, refers to a broad group of people with far-left beliefs who often protest at far-right events, like the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. Members have damaged property in past demonstrations, but accusations that they’ve intentionally caused more damage during crises or natural disasters, like the current wildfires, are unsubstantiated."

 
Nepperhan said:
As stated, the efforts to save people are more difficult due to conservative rumors and hoaxes which make people reluctant to leave their homes.
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Fear of looters is not a conservative characteristic.
Nepperhan said:
Few residents have been looted or set on fire on purpose. The blanket revulsion which would result in anyone being caught setting a catastrophic forest fire should keep any protester from considering such an act.
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Nonsense. The looter/arsonist/protesters in the cities have intended to harm and even kill people and some have succeeded. There should be revulsion against these people setting a courthouse on fire with people inside, but among liberals there is not because they identify the federal courthouses with Trump and think themselves virtuous for supporting a faked “black” movement.

Failure of some law enforcement agencies to attribute some of the fires to radical organizations are unpersuasive. If they don’t know who set the fires, they don’t know the perps WEREN’T ANTIFA or some similar group.
Nepperhan said:
Antifa, short for anti-fascists, refers to a broad group of people with far-left beliefs who often protest at far-right events,
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And far left events like burning cities and killing people.
 
Balto1 said:
Police arrest people intentionally setting wildfires every single year in the western United States.
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Very true but this time there’s group names they can blame them on. How convenient.
 
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There have always been looters following natural and man-made disasters. Nothing new about that. Nothing conservative, liberal or progressive about that. In short, they exist, have always existed and the threat of them will always exist as long as said disasters continue to happen in sufficient size to cause evacuations.

But somehow private citizens defending their homes, businesses and towns is anathema? Somehow private citizens should continue to trust law enforcement agencies that haven’t always been on their side? I’ve a nice bridge over the Columbia River to sell, any takers?
 
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