Fast of Ramadan and it's meaning

[Kaninchen]

Depends upon the Muslim country, obviously. Some are more secularised than others.

ICXC NIKA

It was my way at hinting that there could be various motivations for the fasting - legal pressure, peer pressure, mob pressure . . . . rather than just some kind of joyful proof of Islam being superior to all other belief systems.

 

[MartinJordan]

What did Isa saying about Fasting?

MJ

 

[RPRPsych]

I think you mean “spelling Nazi.”

Aren’t both disorders on the same spectrum?

 

[hasantas]

It was my way at hinting that there could be various motivations for the fasting - legal pressure, peer pressure, mob pressure . . . . rather than just some kind of joyful proof of Islam being superior to all other belief systems.

The religion is the “advise”. So all believers preach each others to obey laws of God. There is no any punishment for any one if he/she do not fast. But Muslims may reproach due to not fulfill worships.

256-There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in taghūt and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. Al-Baqarah

My point is that if Islam itself had no powerful and reliable fact hence no one would be so disposed to fulfill worships so devoutly and hardly for centuries in very different countries and cultures. If a man(Muhammad) would have not been sent by God hence He would never be able to establish religion so forceful. You may frighten people(if you can) for a short time but you cannot make people so pious if you have not any fact. No one would follow a liar for centuries. People can evaluate the religion by self experiences.

 

[codefro]

But seriously, how many Christians actually FAST? From all food and drink? Not many I know do. Many will abstain but to do a 25 hour fast such as on Yom Kippur, or a sunrise to sunset fast as in Ramadan? We have gotten rather slack, IMHO. I have much respect for Muslims during Ramadan. They have more spiritual discipline than I do.

Then fast as they do during lent. It’s one thing to talk, but it’s another thing to do something about it. I know that in the Muslim community it is rare that you will find a spirit of charity attached to their fasting rituals as Christ taught us. Also, once the sun goes down its gluttony-fest. It is a “fulfilling the letter of the law scenario.” Not all Muslims though, sure. Yet, not all Christians do the bear minimum. Some Christians will do some severe penances and keep it secret as our Lord told them to do. So don’t be so quick to write off Christians or praise outward appearances in others.

 

[aicirt]

The religion is the “advise”. So all believers preach each others to obey laws of God. There is no any punishment for any one if he/she do not fast. But Muslims may reproach due to not fulfill worships.

256-There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in taghūt and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. Al-Baqarah

My point is that if Islam itself had no powerful and reliable fact hence no one would be so disposed to fulfill worships so devoutly and hardly for centuries in very different countries and cultures. If a man(Muhammad) would have not been sent by God hence He would never be able to establish religion so forceful. You may frighten people(if you can) for a short time but you cannot make people so pious if you have not any fact. No one would follow a liar for centuries. People can evaluate the religion by self experiences.

Do you deny the photos on the news of ISIS beheading a large number of men who were Christians?

 

[Stephen168]

Also, once the sun goes down its gluttony-fest. It is a “fulfilling the letter of the law scenario.”

I spent a week in Saudi Arabia during Ramadan and that was my observation. The economy became a night time economy with sleeping during the day being common, and “travelling” to avoid the fast.

It that way; I fast daily from 9pm to 5am, but I also have to ‘travel’ to work every day.

 

[meltzerboy]

The religion is the “advise”. So all believers preach each others to obey laws of God. There is no any punishment for any one if he/she do not fast. But Muslims may reproach due to not fulfill worships.

256-There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in taghūt and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. Al-Baqarah

My point is that if Islam itself had no powerful and reliable fact hence no one would be so disposed to fulfill worships so devoutly and hardly for centuries in very different countries and cultures. If a man(Muhammad) would have not been sent by God hence He would never be able to establish religion so forceful. You may frighten people(if you can) for a short time but you cannot make people so pious if you have not any fact. No one would follow a liar for centuries. People can evaluate the religion by self experiences.

“You cannot make people so pious if you have not any fact.” It seems to me that what you say applies to many religions, including Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, the Baha’i faith, and so on. There are pious believers in all these religions. In my view, Islam is no different in this regard.

 

[Kaninchen]

My point is that if Islam itself had no powerful and reliable fact hence no one would be so disposed to fulfill worships so devoutly and hardly for centuries in very different countries and cultures. If a man(Muhammad) would have not been sent by God hence He would never be able to establish religion so forceful. You may frighten people(if you can) for a short time but you cannot make people so pious if you have not any fact. No one would follow a liar for centuries. People can evaluate the religion by self experiences.

There are religions (some far, far older than Islam) that have many, many pious members, which are also very demanding in terms of behaviour, hasantas,

To you, Islam is unique and non-believers just need to understand it and then they’ll be believers as well - to non Muslims, it’s just that Muslims don’t understand everybody else.

 

[hasantas]

“You cannot make people so pious if you have not any fact.” It seems to me that what you say applies to many religions, including Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, the Baha’i faith, and so on. There are pious believers in all these religions. In my view, Islam is no different in this regard.

Yes. Judaism, Christianity are same as Islam and Islam do not deny those. Both have fact.

For Hinduism… well. It has some facts and some moral disciplines. The writings may be some changed form of a prophet’s revelation but it is not clear. Humanbeing had learned belief and moral disciplines from prophets but by the times it got changed partly. According to a Hadith God had sent about 124000 prophets to preach people. So there should come some prophets around those regions.

Bahai should not be recognised a free religion. It can be recognised a false sect of Islam though it may hold many facts.

I do not mean that Islam is the unique fact. But Islam has a very faithful fact.

 

[hasantas]

What did Isa saying about Fasting?

MJ

It is suitable for Muslims.

16 ¶Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly. Matthew 6.

 

[hasantas]

Do you deny the photos on the news of ISIS beheading a large number of men who were Christians?

Crusaders did worse!

And very very very few of Muslims may accpet that outrages of ISIS because of poitical thoughts but not religiously. ISIS kill Muslims more than Christians!

 

[hasantas]

With all due respect, that proves nothing.

There are some Christians who have fasted for 40 days straight with no food AT ALL. They must be super people of God.

Is not Christianity from God? Christians may have very high moral.

 

[Deditus_Domina]

On the issue of coercion:
In several Muslim countries it is illegal for anyone, even non-Muslims, to eat or drink in public during daylight hours. You can be fined, imprisoned or deported for breaking the fast. The government and all of society expects you to fast. The reality is of course that not every one is devout and so there are a lot of people getting around it. As was previously noted, it is not uncommon for schedules to flip flop and people to spend all night up eating and drinking and then sleep the day away.

I fasted Ramadan for 5 years and have done a fairly intensive Lent for 4. My personal experience is that they can be equally difficult.

Ramadan challenges:
No food and water for hours…reallly long hours…
I frequently got really sick when I broke my fast

Ramadan “eases”
A whole bunch of people are doing the exact same thing you are
There is no discernment about how to fast
If you are a woman, you get a week off as you don’t fast on your period
You can eat and drink anything at night - you still get 2 full meals with treats!
Days 8-25 are actually pretty easy (except for the water). You get in the groove of it.

Lent challenges:
Being all on your own
Trying to decide if you are doing too much or should be doing more
Giving up a whole segment of your regular diet while still eating
Fasting while still eating

Lent eases:
There is no sin incurred if you fail

I personally was a champ at Ramadan and struggle at Lent. For me, Ramadan was an all or nothing thing. Lent is an exercise in moderation and temperance - and way harder!
That said I really admire my Muslim friends not drinking water in June!

 

[Thom18]

Crusaders did worse!

And very very very few of Muslims may accpet that outrages of ISIS because of poitical thoughts but not religiously. ISIS kill Muslims more than Christians!

The Crusades began when Muslims invaded Christian territories and began killing the citizens. And I think we waited at least a hundred years before stepping in. And when crusaders did something the Pope didn’t tell them to, they were excommunicated, not applauded.

And we don’t have crusaders around anymore.

 

[hasantas]

Believers do not fast for any worldly advantages. For self advantages people abide more difficulties. That is different.

 

[hasantas]

Yes I know it is not fair to talk about crusaders in that case. But it is not use/fair to propose atrocities of ISIS to disprove or attack Islam. That invalid gang firstly harm Islam and Muslims.

 

[hasantas]

The Crusades began when Muslims invaded Christian territories and began killing the citizens. And I think we waited at least a hundred years before stepping in. And when crusaders did something the Pope didn’t tell them to, they were excommunicated, not applauded.

And we don’t have crusaders around anymore.

Yes. That is right. The first Muslims conquered some countries of Christians. But Muslims do not kill civils though there should be very few individual small cases.

Every state make wars. Muslims established states and it was usual for a state to make war. And Islamic states did that in most peaceful ways.

 

[hasantas]

On the issue of coercion:
In several Muslim countries it is illegal for anyone, even non-Muslims, to eat or drink in public during daylight hours. You can be fined, imprisoned or deported for breaking the fast. The government and all of society expects you to fast. The reality is of course that not every one is devout and so there are a lot of people getting around it. As was previously noted, it is not uncommon for schedules to flip flop and people to spend all night up eating and drinking and then sleep the day away.

I fasted Ramadan for 5 years and have done a fairly intensive Lent for 4. My personal experience is that they can be equally difficult.

Ramadan challenges:
No food and water for hours…reallly long hours…
I frequently got really sick when I broke my fast

Ramadan “eases”
A whole bunch of people are doing the exact same thing you are
There is no discernment about how to fast
If you are a woman, you get a week off as you don’t fast on your period
You can eat and drink anything at night - you still get 2 full meals with treats!
Days 8-25 are actually pretty easy (except for the water). You get in the groove of it.

Lent challenges:
Being all on your own
Trying to decide if you are doing too much or should be doing more
Giving up a whole segment of your regular diet while still eating
Fasting while still eating

Lent eases:
There is no sin incurred if you fail

I personally was a champ at Ramadan and struggle at Lent. For me, Ramadan was an all or nothing thing. Lent is an exercise in moderation and temperance - and way harder!
That said I really admire my Muslim friends not drinking water in June!

Lent is some kind of self discipline as much I understand. Moraly high Muslims have such Lents(diets) for everytime.

 

[aicirt]

The Crusades began when Muslims invaded Christian territories and began killing the citizens. And I think we waited at least a hundred years before stepping in. And when crusaders did something the Pope didn’t tell them to, they were excommunicated, not applauded.

And we don’t have crusaders around anymore.

Charles Martel pushed the Muslims out of France and back into Spain in 732 AD. Note that Islam began in 600 AD so in 132 years they had made it across N. Africa and into Europe ditto for coming into eastern Europe.

In 1032 AD, Pope Urban called for the First Crusade. That is 300 years after Martel. Why so long? Well, apparently, the Muslims allowed pilgrims into the holy areas and then changed their minds.

When the apostles went out to preach and convert, they did not do so by the sword. That is the difference.