Fatalism?

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Bahman said:
What is the point of thought if it cannot come through? From now on, you know well that you are not free to choose B. That is your reality whether you like it or not.
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I am not thinking that thought - so don’t ask me.

But thoughts are real -they are real thoughts.

God knows our thoughts and our actions (and everything really).

But getting back to the original thing - about a choice I can make and carry out in external action:

If I have a choice of A or B and so I give it some thought and decide A - well that is part of the nature of the gift of free will…I can think about what I will choose and choose it.

Of course I also can simply in a different example think - should I think about elephants or giraffes? I can choose one or the other to purely think about. Maybe I like animals - and I like to think about them. The point is that a choice that is purely internal - is also a real choice - I can choose to think about giraffes today instead of elephants!

Free will is a gift and is carried out daily in so many aspects of life -constantly. It is what we live with every day -even in the forum (to post or not to post…to say this or that…all involve free choice). All known by God.

I am going to choose to leave the forum for now…good night. 😃
 
Bahman said:
How God could know B? It doesn’t exist. I am just trying to take you to the point of contradiction. You are fast to take the point though.
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But you yourself (in the previous post) assert B’s existence solely based on the fact that I have the ability to choose it. So now you are saying it doesn’t exist? That is a contradiction. Perhaps slow down and read before re-posting your same rant about contradiction and conflict with God’s view…
 
davidv said:
This is not correct. Something is real whether it is a choice or not.
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I have already corrected that. Please see post #72.
davidv said:
True, but not base on the faulty logic presented above.
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It is correct now.
davidv said:
Why do I need to assume something that is known to be true?
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Because that could be your fallacy.
davidv said:
True
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Good.
davidv said:
Not true. Faulty logic (non sequitur).
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Come on. God knows that you are going to choose A and not B hence B is an illusion as an option.
davidv said:
There is no tension except in your fantasy of God. The real God does not present this tension.
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There is.
 
Bookcat said:
I am not thinking that thought - so don’t ask me.

But thoughts are real -they are real thoughts.

God knows our thoughts and our actions (and everything really).

But getting back to the original thing - about a choice I can make and carry out in external action:

If I have a choice of A or B and so I give it some thought and decide A - well that is part of the nature of the gift of free will…I can think about what I will choose and choose it.

Of course I also can simply in a different example think - should I think about elephants or giraffes? I can choose one or the other to purely think about. Maybe I like animals - and I like to think about them. The point is that a choice that is purely internal - is also a real choice - I can choose to think about giraffes today instead of elephants!

Free will is a gift and is carried out daily in so many aspects of life -constantly. It is what we live with every day -even in the forum (to post or not to post…to say this or that…all involve free choice). All known by God.

I am going to choose to leave the forum for now…good night. 😃
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😃
 
Mumbles140 said:
But you yourself (in the previous post) assert B’s existence solely based on the fact that I have the ability to choose it.
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Yes, that is correct.
Mumbles140 said:
So now you are saying it doesn’t exist?
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Yes, when only we consider God, in another word assume that future is fixed.
Mumbles140 said:
That is a contradiction.
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Well, lets see what is the problem. B cannot be real and illusion at the same time. On one side we have you who claim that B is real since I can catch it in another hand there is God who knows that you cannot catch it. This is the point of contradiction, so we have to keep one and drop another.
Mumbles140 said:
Perhaps slow down and read before re-posting your same rant about contradiction and conflict with God’s view…
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You see. I was correct.
 
Bahman said:
Come on. God knows that you are going to choose A and not B hence B is an illusion as an option.

.
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We have explained things (that it is not an illusion etc) and you keep saying " it is an illusion".

Please read again the posts already provided.
 
Bookcat said:
Yes sure.

I could do A or B.

Choose chocolate or vanilla icecream.

Sure.

In fact I could choose A. And later decide that it is within moderation and choose B too!
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You are kidding me. How you could do B if God knows that you do A!?
 
If I have a choice of A or B and so I give it some thought and decide A - well that is part of the nature of the gift of free will…I can think about what I will choose and choose it.

Of course I also can simply think - should I think about elephants or giraffes? I can choose one or the other to purely think about. Maybe I like animals - and I like to think about them. The point is that a choice that is purely internal - is also a real choice - I can choose to think about giraffes today instead of elephants!

Free will is a gift and is carried out daily in so many aspects of life -constantly. It is what we live with every day -even in the forum (to post or not to post…to say this or that…all involve free choice). All known by God.

Catechism:

“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy.” (CCC 600)
 
Bookcat said:
I Have explained - see the various posts above.
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That is not a good argument. Why do you want to leave the discussion when everything is very clear. God knows that you do A. Can you do B? Just answer this. I will do the rest of cutting and deduce that you are in trap of fate while being free to act.
 
Bookcat said:
If I have a choice of A or B and so I give it some thought and decide A - well that is part of the nature of the gift of free will…I can think about what I will choose and choose it.

Of course I also can simply think - should I think about elephants or giraffes? I can choose one or the other to purely think about. Maybe I like animals - and I like to think about them. The point is that a choice that is purely internal - is also a real choice - I can choose to think about giraffes today instead of elephants!

Free will is a gift and is carried out daily in so many aspects of life -constantly. It is what we live with every day -even in the forum (to post or not to post…to say this or that…all involve free choice). All known by God.

Catechism:

“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy.” (CCC 600)
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I already simplify the situation. Please just read post #109.
 
Bahman said:
That is not a good argument. Why do you want to leave the discussion when everything is very clear. God knows that you do A. Can you do B? Just answer this. I will do the rest of cutting and deduce that you are in trap of fate while being free to act.
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Have you ever chosen to eat A instead of B (cookies instead of cake) and then later decided - Oh I will have some cake too?

Tis free will. We choose things freely all the time. Even posting here.

And God knows it all.
 
Bookcat said:
Have you ever chosen to eat A instead of B (cookies instead of cake) and then later decided - Oh I will have some cake too?

Tis free will. We choose things freely all the time. Even posting here.

And God knows it all.
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God knows that you do A. Can you do B? Just answer this.
 
Bookcat said:
Yes and God knows I do B too.

God know all I do - if not I could not do it.
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That is not a good answer to my very simple question. God knows that you would do A. How God can know that you do B too? The Gods sees is unique hence it cannot be A and B at the same time. Can you do B too?
 
Bahman said:
That is not a good answer to my very simple question. God knows that you would do A. How God can know that you do B too? The Gods sees is unique hence it cannot be A and B at the same time. Can you do B too?
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Cause I do A and B.

If I do it - God knows it. I can not do* anything *without God knowing it.

Yes God sees that I do A and that I do B. That I eat chocolate icecream and later eat vanilla. We are free.
 
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