Father James Altman: You cannot be Catholic & a Democrat. Period

[fide]

I would say that many acknowledge it’s a baby, but still insist it’s their right to kill the baby.

If surgical abortion were outlawed today, you’d still have the pills; if surgical abortions and pills were outlawed todayy, you’d still have “therapeutic” D&Cs.

Outlawing abortion will not end abortion. Changing minds is the way to eliminate abortion.

I really don’t think “minds” need the change - it is hearts. Do you remember the fierce firefight to block laws that require a woman seeking an abortion to look at an ultrasound of that “mess of cells” - that living baby’s body - that they want and plan to expel from their “own” bodies? And all the pro-abortion cries of horror at the possibility of subjecting the poor victim woman to such a barbaric and cruel requirement?

Hearts hardened enough to reject the divine gift of maternal love! That is a hardened heart. God gave such maternal love to women as a share of His own Self-sacrificial love! But “emancipated” women of today would rather the hardened heart of a self-centered immature man/boy, than the gift of Godly selfless love in their own heart.

Is 49:15 – Can a mother forget her infant, be without tenderness for the child of her womb? Even should she forget, I will never forget you.

 

[1cthlctrth]

• ability for Catholic organizations to hire only those who support the organization’s mission

That’s not social justice. That’s corporate justice. And it could be downright unjust for those unable to work.

Rebuttal:
Catholic school should not be FORCED to hire an atheist or openly same-sex “married” teacher.

• protecting the Electoral College, so that Middle America still matters in Presidential Elections

Not a social justice issue. Just a political issue.

Rebuttal:
If the Electoral College is eliminated, campaigning and policies would be set on mostly the big cities like LA, NY, Chicago…

• freedom to choose private health insurance.

…which comes the loss of freedom to get health care, period, if you can’t afford those Cadillac plans.

rebuttal:
Nobody is stopping you from getting health care. But rationing will occur with government-only health plans.

• decreasing poverty: lower unemployment rate than any time in 49 years

…which cannot be attributed to Republicans any more than sunny weather.

Rebuttal:
Decreased burdensome regulations and free markets.

• an economic system that best helps minorities:

That system was put in place by Democrats too.

Rebuttal:
Democrats support government control and socialism.

• freedom against being told what kind of vehicle we can drive, how much hear/air conditioning and water we can use, whether we can ride airplanes or own cows.

just a political issue. (not social justice)

Rebuttal:
Check back with me when you have to ration water, heat, and air conditioning.

• supporting school choice for kids in poor school districts. Democrats stand in the way.

What is called school choice does not really offer choices kids in poor neighborhoods. It is still school choice for the elite only.

Rebuttal:
School vouchers would give all kids to select a school outside of the school district they reside in. You know this.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Rebuttal:
Catholic school should not be FORCED to hire an atheist or openly same-sex “married” teacher.

Still not a social justice issue. You said it was a social justice issue.

If the Electoral College is eliminated, campaigning and policies would be set on mostly the big cities like LA, NY, Chicago…

Definitely not a social justice issue.

Nobody is stopping you from getting health care. But rationing will occur with government-only health plans.

Lack of money can stop you.

Decreased burdensome regulations and free markets.

Which helps big corporations most of all.

School vouchers would give all kids to select a school outside of the school district they reside in. You know this.

Kids do not want to (nor should they have to) ride the bus for an hour and a half each way to and from school.

 

[Ender]

Decreased burdensome regulations and free markets.

Which helps big corporations most of all.

Actually I think this is backwards. Big companies with their staffs of lawyers can much more easily deal with the complexities of regulations than small companies. Regulations impose relatively greater burdens on smaller businesses.

Kids do not want to (nor should they have to) ride the bus for an hour and a half each way to and from school.

This should be the family’s decision to make, not yours and not government officials. You are way too cavalier with other people’s rights. If school vouchers are a bad idea they will die out naturally. That they haven’t done so is a pretty good indication that enough parents prefer them to make them a viable alternative, at least where local government and teacher’s unions haven’t killed them.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Kids do not want to (nor should they have to) ride the bus for an hour and a half each way to and from school.

Are we sure that would be the case for every family? I know if my child went to school out of our district it would be about a ten minute drive for me.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Actually I think this is backwards. Big companies with their staffs of lawyers can much more easily deal with the complexities of regulations than small companies. Regulations impose relatively greater burdens on smaller businesses.

If it was just “dealing with the complexities” that constituted the entire burden that might be the case, but the real burden is the substance of the regulations. In any case, you are still talking about the corporations, big and small, and not the majority of workers. They don’t benefit from reduced regulation, except negatively, since many of those regulations are targeted at protecting those very workers. Or if they benefit positively it is only through the trickle-down effect whereby their employers deign to allow some of the benefit they receive to be passed on to their workers. We know where most of that financial benefit is kept.

Kids do not want to (nor should they have to) ride the bus for an hour and a half each way to and from school.

That is not a choice. “Travel 3 hours extra a day to get a quality education or settle for what your neighborhood school provides”. Interesting that kids in rich neighborhoods don’t have to make that choice. The fact is the government money spent on charter schools is money that is not available to upgrade the schools in those poor neighborhoods. The real choice should be “Do you want us to put money in a charter school 30 miles from your home, or in your neighborhood school?” That’s the choice your preferred policy denies to them.

You are way too cavalier with other people’s rights.

Since you deny them the right to make the choice I outlined above, I think you are being way to cavalier with other people’s rights.

If school vouchers are a bad idea they will die out naturally.

Only when the people in the poor neighborhoods see that they are not benefitting and vote out the scoundrels who promote that idea and vote in their own scoundrels. But the people who are benefiting from those schools will not want them to die out. Why should they? They are getting more of the public dollar.

LeafByNiggle:

Kids do not want to (nor should they have to) ride the bus for an hour and a half each way to and from school.

Are we sure that would be the case for every family? I know if my child went to school out of our district it would be about a ten minute drive for me.

That’s nice that you can drive them. Many in poor neighborhoods cannot for various reasons.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

That’s nice that you can drive them. Many in poor neighborhoods cannot for various reasons.

Many can’t but that should be the parents choice and with school choice parents have the opportunity to decide how they might get that child to and from school.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

That’s nice that you can drive them. Many in poor neighborhoods cannot for various reasons.

Many can’t but that should be the parents choice and with school choice parents have the opportunity to decide how they might get that child to and from school.

See my reply to Ender on this question. They should also have the choice of having their local school upgraded. That is the choice that this plan will deny them.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

See my reply to Ender on this question. They should also have the choice of having their local school upgraded. That is the choice that this plan will deny them.

As (name removed by moderator) said it will encourage schools and school districts to do better as homeschooling has through these past years brought about changes in schools.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

See my reply to Ender on this question. They should also have the choice of having their local school upgraded. That is the choice that this plan will deny them.

As (name removed by moderator) said it will encourage schools and school districts to do better as homeschooling has through these past years brought about changes in schools.

Pure speculation. Yes, there have been changes over the years, but there is no proof that competition from charter schools or homeschooling was the cause of those changes. The fact is that the quality of education is driven by small class size, more teachers, more qualified teachers, buildings that are not falling apart. The existence of charter schools and homeschooling has done nothing to fix the broken AC unit, hire more and better qualified teachers. What has done these things is more money. If you don’t believe it, just ask the parents in the rich neighborhoods if they want to have their school get by with fewer teachers with poor qualifications, broken infrastructure. They will laugh at such a suggestion.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Yes, there have been changes over the years, but there is no proof that competition from charter schools or homeschooling was the cause of those changes. The fact is that the quality of education is driven by small class size, more teachers, more qualified teachers, buildings that are not falling apart.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

Also, why can’t both be allowed. Why can’t we parents have school choice and those who choose to stay in public schools have quality education. Some reasons why many want school choice has nothing to do with class size, or buildings but what is being taught, which explains why many parents who could be wealthy give that up and choose to stay home and homeschool. Why shouldn’t a parent who doesn’t want their child to stay in one district have a choice to attend another for the benefit of their child. Sometimes they want to be in a different district for reasons other than the building or class size

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Also, why can’t both be allowed.

I explained that too. There is only so much money allocated to education. If more of it is diverted to schools in rich neighborhoods, there will be less left for schools in poor neighborhoods.

Why shouldn’t a parent who doesn’t want their child to stay in one district have a choice to attend another for the benefit of their child.

As I said before, offering them that choice precludes us from offering them the better choice.

Sometimes they want to be in a different district for reasons other than the building or class size

And most of the time it is for reasons that the teachers are higher quality and not as stressed out by huge class sizes.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

It still should be a parent’s choice That is their God given responsibility.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It still should be a parent’s choice That is their God given responsibility.

God given? Where does it say that charter schools are a God given choice?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

God given? Where does it say that charter schools are a God given choice?

the responsibility for a child’s education is given by God to the parent. They should have the right to choose what is for their child the best education they can give.

The right and duty of parents to give education is essential, since it is connected with the
transmission of human life;

Education is the parents’ domain insofar as their educational task continues the
generation of life;

It…should be stressed that the education of children is a sacred duty and a shared task of
the parents, both father and mother:

https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/catholic-teaching/upload/Rights-and-Duties-of-Parents.pdf

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

God given? Where does it say that charter schools are a God given choice?

the responsibility for a child’s education is given by God to the parent. They should have the right to choose what is for their child the best education they can give.

Just because the child’s education is the responsibility of the parent that does not mean a parent must be given every conceivable option for their child’s education.

If I as a parent want the choice of having a private tutor that speaks seven languages, but cannot afford one, no one has the duty to give it to me.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

If I as a parent want the choice of having a private tutor that speaks seven languages, but cannot afford one, no one has the duty to give it to me.

Agree, that is why I said the best education the parent can give. That will not always be the best education out there

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

If I as a parent want the choice of having a private tutor that speaks seven languages, but cannot afford one, no one has the duty to give it to me.

Agree, that is why I said the best education the parent can give. That will not always be the best education out there

Then your comment had nothing to do with whether there ought to be charter schools in rich neighborhoods. Personally, I think charter schools would be great! - if the put them only in poor neighborhoods. The rich kids don’t need them because they already have a superior education.

 

[sealabeag]

Telling sign of the times that this is actually a controversial opinion.

 

[Anrakyr]

Yes there are way too many libs (probably going to offend everyone with this language lol) in the church and on this forum, I wish I could shake their shoulders and shout ‘WAKE UP!’ at them.

Funny, I want to do the same to you.