Father James Altman: You cannot be Catholic & a Democrat. Period

[Julius_Caesar]

You like to answer questions with questions

Your questions are honestly questions to get away from the implication.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Do you know what the Magisterium is?

Is the Cathechism or is it not Magisterial teaching?

 

[Montrose]

I haven’t read this thread but looking at the thread title is Father Altman saying that the US should have a one party dictatorship rather than voting for Democrats and having a two party democracy?

 

[fide]

Sorry. I don’t have time for your games. Goodbye.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Sorry. I don’t have time for your games. Goodbye.

What I tell myself everytime I rage quit on 2k?

 

[fide]

I haven’t read this thread but looking at the thread title is Father Altman saying that the US should have a one party dictatorship rather than voting for Democrats and having a two party democracy?

Watch the linked video, and see what you think he is saying.

 

[puer.dei]

Jesus was clear, strong and direct when He spoke with disciples who needed correction - such as Peter, our first Pope:

He corrected, and He did so with love. There is no love in the tone of many here.

 

[fide]

“Tone” is a subjective judgment, when the only data are typed words on a very cool digital screen. This medium is rife with misreadings and wrong judgments.

 

[TULIPed]

Life is sacred.

Agreed.

Is war ever justified? Can I kill in self defense? In short - is killing ever justified? Not a trick question - want to develop the argument. I’m firmly opposed to abortion, but scratch my head on the death penalty.

 

[fide]

Is war ever justified? Can I kill in self defense? In short - is killing ever justified? Not a trick question - want to develop the argument. I’m firmly opposed to abortion, but scratch my head on the death penalty.

The Catechism has this:

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor… The one is intended, the other is not.”<St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II, 64, 7, corp. art>

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful… Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.<St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II, 64, 7, corp. art>

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

The Catechism has this:

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor… The one is intended, the other is not.”<St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II, 64, 7, corp. art>

Which is one the Magisterium rules as only the latter of the two gets accomplished.

 

[1cthlctrth]

needs to show that it gives a rip about social justice

Almost all Republican Party candidates surpass their Democratic Party opponents regarding the following “social justice” issues:

• appointing Federal Judges who support the right for Christians to LIVE our faith, the Constitution, and law and order, instead of Judges who invent their own laws from the bench
• religious liberty and conscience protection so that doctors and their assistants are not forced to participate in abortion, and so Christian bakers and others are not forced to participate in un-Christian activity
• ability for Catholic organizations to hire only those who support the organization’s mission
• protecting the Electoral College, so that Middle America still matters in Presidential Elections
• freedom to choose private health insurance. Democrats want to eliminate your Blue Cross and Independent Health.
• decreasing poverty: lower unemployment rate than any time in 49 years for several months up to Feb. 2020 (before the Governors’ business shutdowns with the explanations being to help stop the spread of the Chinese coronavirus)
• an economic system that best helps minorities: According to the Department of Labor Statistics, Hispanics and African-Americans were enjoying their lowest unemployment rate and highest median income in recorded history all the way up to February 2020 (before state Governors started shutting down )
• freedom against being told what kind of vehicle we can drive, how much hear/air conditioning and water we can use, whether we can ride airplanes or own cows. The Biden/AOC Democrats’ “Green New Deal” has been estimated to cost $94 trillion over the next 10 years, which would be $60,000 per year per household, including adjustments you’d have to make to your house, office buildings, etc.
• supporting school choice for kids in poor school districts. Democrats stand in the way.

 

[fide]

The fact is, the main thing is NOT “the economy, stupid” as some politicians insist. Human beings are made for a “society” that is NOT - is MORE THAN - mere materialism and individualism and hedonism and sexual license. We were created and designed for eternal life in Truth, in fellowship with God and in fellowship with others who are in fellowship with God.

There is a very active enemy at war with our nature and our created purpose – and at war with the divine intent. He infiltrates and infects and affects every human enterprise that he can. And he has infiltrated every political party, to some extent, and every human ideology and movement, to some extent. And every religious institution, to some extent. Our discernment MUST lead us to prudent involvement with others to resist his murderous work to the greatest extent we can, so to effect the advancement of God’s purpose and intention as MUCH as we can.

It is clear to me that in this time, that means opposing the Democrats as much as possible, advancing the Trump Republicans as much as possible, remaining true to the authentic Catholic Faith, morality, worship and sacramental life as much as possible, and striving to grow ever closer to Christ, in Christ - to the fullness of His life - as much as possible while it is Day, for there is a night coming when no man can work.

We must strive to grow in Him!

Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
Eph 4:15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
Eph 4:16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love.

 

[Maxirad]

• decreasing poverty: lower unemployment rate than any time in 49 years for several months up to Feb. 2020 (before the Governors’ business shutdowns with the explanations being to help stop the spread of the Chinese coronavirus)
• an economic system that best helps minorities: According to the Department of Labor Statistics, Hispanics and African-Americans were enjoying their lowest unemployment rate and highest median income in recorded history all the way up to February 2020 (before state Governors started shutting down )
• freedom against being told what kind of vehicle we can drive, how much hear/air conditioning and water we can use, whether we can ride airplanes or own cows. The Biden/AOC Democrats’ “Green New Deal” has been estimated to cost $94 trillion over the next 10 years, which would be $60,000 per year per household, including adjustments you’d have to make to your house, office buildings, etc.

If you can, 1cthlctrth, you might want to check out this piece by Joel Kotkin.

 

[HarryStotle]

whatistrue:

And exactly how well has yelling, threatening, and calling them murderers worked so far? If you want them to stop killing babies, you first have to convince them that what they are killing are actually babies, because the narrative they are following is different. Convince and educate, not yell or threaten into submission.

I would say that many acknowledge it’s a baby, but still insist it’s their right to kill the baby.

If surgical abortion were outlawed today, you’d still have the pills; if surgical abortions and pills were outlawed todayy, you’d still have “therapeutic” D&Cs.

Outlawing abortion will not end abortion. Changing minds is the way to eliminate abortion.

Could you provide some details in terms of how you, yourself, have set about “changing minds?” Other than merely telling others who actually attempt to do so to tone their attempts down and make them more anodine?

Perhaps by leading by example you could demonstrate the most effective mind altering strategies for the rest of us to emulate? Let’s change some minds your way, shall we?

 

[PaulinVA]

Perhaps by leading by example you could demonstrate the most effective mind altering strategies for the rest of us to emulate? Let’s change some minds your way, shall we?

Okayyyyyy…

I learned that my first son had a terrible brain defect during the sonogram from hell at about 18 weeks. Thunderstorm rolling through, thunder, lightning, a doctor telling us our son wasn’t going to live.

We spoke to several providers (geneticist, sonographers, etc) who assumed we were going to abort him. We told them we would not. Our OB, who was pro-life, said he would not do abortions but could tell us who could.

We didn’t even need to pray. Of course, we weren’t going to kill our son because he wasn’t perfect.

He was born, the OB baptized him in the NICU. He came home a month later in a persistent vegetative state. My wife and I took care of him for three years at home until his natural death.

His funeral was attended by our work colleagues, caregivers, people from the parish. I remember our good friend, the priest at the parish who had been with us through it all, cried for him and for us during the funeral Mass.

So, that’s how I’ve gone about changing minds. Showing people that choosing life is the correct choice and that all life should be respected.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Perhaps by leading by example you could demonstrate the most effective mind altering strategies for the rest of us to emulate? Let’s change some minds your way, shall we?

Okayyyyyy…

I learned that my first son had a terrible brain defect during the sonogram from hell at about 18 weeks. Thunderstorm rolling through, thunder, lightning, a doctor telling us our son wasn’t going to live.

We spoke to several providers (geneticist, monographers, etc) who assumed we were going to abort him. We told them we would not. Our OB, who was pro-life, said he would not do abortions but could tell us who could.

We didn’t even need to pray. Of course, we weren’t going to kill our son because he wasn’t perfect.

He was born, the OB baptized him in the NICU. He came home a month later in a persistent vegetative state. My wife and I took care of him for three years at home until his natural death.

His funeral was attended by our work colleagues, caregivers, people from the parish. I remember our good friend, the priest at the parish who had been with us through it all, cried for him and for us during the funeral Mass.

So, that’s how I’ve gone about changing minds. Showing people that choosing life is the correct choice and that all life should be respected.

Okay…

You chose life for your son.

Do you think it would have been morally justified for you not to have?

Do you believe it would have been morally justified for anyone else in your position not to have?

Why or why not?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Almost all Republican Party candidates surpass their Democratic Party opponents regarding the following “social justice” issues:

• ability for Catholic organizations to hire only those who support the organization’s mission

That’s not social justice. That’s corporate justice. And it could be downright unjust for those unable to work.

• protecting the Electoral College, so that Middle America still matters in Presidential Elections

Not a social justice issue. Just a political issue.

• freedom to choose private health insurance.

…which comes the loss of freedom to get health care, period, if you can’t afford those Cadillac plans.

• decreasing poverty: lower unemployment rate than any time in 49 years

…which cannot be attributed to Republicans any more than sunny weather.

• an economic system that best helps minorities:

That system was put in place by Democrats too.

• freedom against being told what kind of vehicle we can drive, how much hear/air conditioning and water we can use, whether we can ride airplanes or own cows.

just a political issue. (not social justice)

• supporting school choice for kids in poor school districts. Democrats stand in the way.

What is called school choice does not really offer choices kids in poor neighborhoods. It is still school choice for the elite only.

 

[PaulinVA]

Do you believe it would have been morally justified for anyone else in your position not to have?

No, I don’t. Killing is killing is killing is killing.

I’m actually totally against abortion, and don’t believe in any exceptions. If it’s murder, it’s murder.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Do you believe it would have been morally justified for anyone else in your position not to have?

No, I don’t. Killing is killing is killing is killing.

I’m actually totally against abortion, and don’t believe in any exceptions. If it’s murder, it’s murder.

Interesting use of language.

You may want to go back and modify your apparent agreement with this post upthread.

And exactly how well has yelling, threatening, and calling them murderers worked so far? If you want them to stop killing babies, you first have to convince them that what they are killing are actually babies, because the narrative they are following is different. Convince and educate, not yell or threaten into submission.

You have resorted, not to convincing others that the babies “are actually babies,” but that you believed fervently that yours was.

That isn’t exactly the same thing as making a compelling case that even the most strident abortion supporter will accept.

The other aspect of the current “debate” that you are missing is that we are no longer operating in the rational realm with regard to many abortion supporters. These are people that will destroy you merely for suggesting that they do not have a right to kill babies - i.e., many think they have a right to kill you for trying to relieve then of their rights.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...nt-supreme-court-peacefully-protesting-video/

We can carefully observe and assess how Amy Coney Barrett will be treated in the next few weeks by those who support abortion. We ought to carefully analyze whether these people are amenable to sound reason and logic by how sanely they treat her. It will be instructive.