Fatima

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JKirkLVNV said:
Well, I don’t see where anyone has said anything offensive ABOUT the apparition or offensive to Our Lady. I only see people reflecting genuine Catholic teaching on the question. As for offending devotees, well, we should try to avoid offense in general. Perhaps you could get your fellow “traditionalists” to stop offending those devoted to the OF, etc. If we ALL worked on that, well…
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Well, yes, but why did you put …traditionalists… in parentheses ?

Look at the OP. There was a simple question asked …“What do you believe happened, or did not happen, in Fatima, Portugal in the year 1917” ?

The very first reply ignored the question and introduced discussion of the Secret itself. Then, of course, our good friend basilphx made sure we got sidetracked.

Welcome to CA TC Forum 😉
 
I_Believe said:
Well, yes, but why did you put …traditionalists… in parentheses ?

Look at the OP. There was a simple question asked …“What do you believe happened, or did not happen, in Fatima, Portugal in the year 1917” ?

The very first reply ignored the question and introduced discussion of the Secret itself. Then, of course, our good friend basilphx made sure we got sidetracked.

Welcome to CA TC Forum 😉
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Because of what HH Pope Benedict XV said about Catholics adding labels to themselves. Because stridency and bitterness and arrogance aren’t terribly traditional and so I don’t believe they are either.

Before you react in anger, you did ask me. My take is that one is either a Catholic or one isn’t. We don’t need adjectives to modify us.
 
Our Lady asked that the Pope, in union with the world’s Bishops, consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart. I have seen no proof this request has been honored.
 
I_Believe said:
You post mentioning salvation, I reply in agreement with reservations, you then ask a silly question when it’s obvious I didn’t take your words out of context, then you take mine out of context in my next post and twist them to mean what you want them to mean so you can ridicule, contradict, and chastise.

Work on your reading comprehension and get back to me. :rolleyes:
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Having read the posts over several times I would say your points were as clear as mud.I"ll brush up on my reading comprehension if you brush up on writing with clarity.I can’t read through mud:rolleyes:😛
PS-Being arrogant and smarmy-doesn’t help.
 
juliamajor said:
Having read the posts over several times I would say your points were as clear as mud.I"ll brush up on my reading comprehension if you brush up on writing with clarity.I can’t read through mud:rolleyes:😛
PS-Being arrogant and smarmy-doesn’t help.
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Baiter
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Because of what HH Pope Benedict XV said about Catholics adding labels to themselves. Because stridency and bitterness and arrogance aren’t terribly traditional and so I don’t believe they are either.

Before you react in anger, you did ask me. My take is that one is either a Catholic or one isn’t. We don’t need adjectives to modify us.
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Negativity should not be the mark of any devout Catholic. One who is drawn to tradition and the EF needs to stay focused on those things which provide spiritual growth, not focusing on the percieved lack of growth among others. That is a fundamentalist mindset. That is why I started a thread a few months back on the positive aspects of traditional Catholicism. When Catholics start arguing among themselves and applying labels, they are no different or better than Protestants.
 
I_Believe said:
Our Lady asked that the Pope, in union with the world’s Bishops, consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart. I have seen no proof this request has been honored.
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I disagree on the basis that Sister Lucia acknowleged that this consecration has in fact taken place, (see The Last Secret of Fatima pgs. 82-83). Pope John Paul II made the Act of Entrustment on March 25, 1984. True, it did not explicitly say “Russia”, but he did say “Mother of the Church! … Enlighten especially the peoples whose consecration and entrustment by us you are awaiting.”
 
JesusILove said:
I personally do believe in Fatima. I really don’t think the 3rd secret will be revealed until the 2nd is fulfilled. The conversion of Russian and period of world peace.

The main message is, pray the Rosary. My favorite prayer.
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With respect, I disagree with the speculation that the third secret won’t be revealed until the second is fulfilled. I once again base my judgement on Sr. Lucia’s confirmation that the Third Secret that was published in the year 2000 is an accurate reproduction.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Now we’re told that part is still kept a secret. And you don’t hear about Novenas anymore.
The third secret was revealed several years ago during the lifetime of beloved John Paul the Great.

A lot of people who would rather believe gloom, doom, and rumors of boom instead of what the Church says don’t want to accept it.
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Yes, that’s true. I know people who still pray for the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart…and it was done in 1984! Sister Lucia said it was accepted by God!

There have been times when I would say, “Are you calling Sister Lucia a liar?”

I’d rather trust what the Church says about the Consecration-and about the Third Secret for that matter.
 
Nowdays it’s nearly impossible to discuss Our Lady Of Fatima without offending somebody. I guess it comes down to two possible choices regarding what to believe about the messages. Either we admit we haven’t been given the details of the 3rd secret, and that there have been forms of consecration, but never specifically what Heaven requested. Or, we can believe that all that was requested has been carried out, and that we are now in that period of peace, and Russia, where they persecute the Church, and are aborting and contracepting themselves out of existence, has been converted.
 
What happened at Fatima in 1916-1917? Well I believe that Our Blessed Mother appeared to three shepherd children. These apparitions were preceded by apparitions of the Archangel Michael who brought the Eucharist to them.

I believe that something most extraordinary in the history of the world occured there during those years.

I believe that the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist was once again presented there.
I believe the reality of hell was once again revealed there.

I believe that the power of the Rosary was demonstrated there and continues to be demonstrated there.

I believe that Christian people were told of the importance of their role in the history of the world and how God will intervene for His people through the medium of Faith.

I believe that what happened in the hearts of the people of that region at that time, is still happening today. I know because I experienced something radically supernatural there when I visited for the first time in August 1992. How do I know it was supernatural? The effects and the power of that experience are as raw today and as intense today 17 years later as they were at that time. I can still hardly talk about them without getting emotional. It is truly a very special place where great graces are given for the conversion of sinners.

By the way if you wish to join with the Rosary directly from the chapel of Apparitions you can tune in at santuario-fatima.pt/capelinha.html

The Rosary goes out live at 9.30pm GMT and is a wonderful experience to relive especially if you have been there before.
 
Hesychios said:
What error is Russia spreading?
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“Russia will continue to spread her errors” is not simply a spreading of Communism but of all the errors that came with it.

Russia no longer works under the banner of Communism yet her errors continue to be spread accross the globe even as we speak. They are constituted in the anti-life and anti-family policies we see coming to our doorteps in these days. I need only mention some like abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide which all found favour in Russia from about 1919 onwards.

Do not for one single moment think that just because Russia is no longer marching to a Communist government that there are no more errors to spread. The errors of Communism are finding their way solidly into the so called Democratic government structures we experience today.

The library may be closed but the books are still teaching.

The remedy? “Pray! Pray the Rosary. Pray for peace in the world, for the conversion of sinners and in reparation for the sins committed against the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”
 
ByzCath said:
It is a Church teaching that public revelation is closed and no private revelation can add to it so no private revelation is binding upon faithful Catholics.
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The Church has publically stated that the message of Fatima is worthy of belief. There were no further revelations of the Faith at Fatima, however. So, yes, you are correct that no private revelation is binding upon faithful Catholics. However, also, the Miracle of the Sun was a PUBLIC event to prove that the apparitions and messages were authentic and from God. The Church approves.
 
barb_finnegan said:
Yes, that’s true. I know people who still pray for the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart…and it was done in 1984! Sister Lucia said it was accepted by God!

**Just because the consecration occurred in 1984 does not mean that a conversion of the Russian people to the Immaculate Heart has also occurred. I don’t see any indication of this, even after 25 years. Consecration does *not ***mean conversion. To imply that we should stop ‘praying’ for the conversion of Russia is a grave error.
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judechild said:
I disagree on the basis that Sister Lucia acknowleged that this consecration has in fact taken place, (see The Last Secret of Fatima pgs. 82-83). Pope John Paul II made the Act of Entrustment on March 25, 1984. True, it did not explicitly say “Russia”, but he did say “Mother of the Church! … Enlighten especially the peoples whose consecration and entrustment by us you are awaiting.”
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Enlighten those whose consecration you are ** awaiting** ?

I have not read the book, but if you can show me enough text to see the context, it would help. From what you offer here, the word “awaiting” proves Our Lady is still, waiting.

Are you saying H.H. JPII called Russia the “mother of the Church” ?
 
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